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Salary Negotiation

I have never really done a salary negotiation before. Is this something that is expected with a job offer?

I was recently offered an entry-level job with a marketing research firm. I am well qualified, and think they’re excited to hire me. I’m comfortable with the offer as-is, but I don’t want to short change myself. Do I jeopardize my offer my making a counter-offer? I’d love some advice on this.

You can counter offer but your reasoning needs to be sound. 5% more, 10% more, but why?

Did they not discuss salary during the interview process? Was a recruiter involved?

Would you be happy to move to the new company NOT considering the money aspect?

Do you have a competing offer or other options? You can always negotiate, but they can also simply rescind the offer. Also, if you don’t know whether you have bargaining power, you probably don’t. It sucks leaving money on the table, but it doesn’t suck as much as not having a job if you really need one.

Thanks for the feedback. I don’t have much leverage, and frankly am satisfied with the offer. I am basically asking if a counter-offer is an expected part of the process. This job is the first step of many that I’ll make so I’m not sweating it too hard. It’s just that some sources make it sound like every job offer should be greeted with a counter.

It is not expected to make counter offers.

Usually you get an offer, if it doesn’t meet your expectation (or even if it does) you can ask for X + Y% because of various factors (personal, value add, market factors, low annual bonus etc).

You can also negotiate for other small perks in your job - phones, allowances etc. This is another form of remuneration.

View your package as a whole.

And when you leave a job the $$ is only one part of the equation - the job environment and hiring manager/senior management play a big part as well. So be sure to be aware of that before you sign.

While you’re already quite a bit past that point, one of the plusses of working with a recruiter is that they can insulate you from the salary negotiations. You can be pretty upfront with them about exactly how much you want to be paid, how much vacation/leave, etc.

My dialogue went pretty much like this:
“So, you’re probably looking in the $xx-$yy range?”
“That would be great, but isn’t it a bit higher than what I can expect?”
“It’s worth a try isn’t it?”
“Well, in that case, sure, that sounds fine.”

My recruiter talked me into about a 10% increase over what I reasonably thought I could get. (They got a percentage based commission on the deal, so it worked out well for everyone involved.)

[quote]timbofirstblood wrote:
Thanks for the feedback. I don’t have much leverage, and frankly am satisfied with the offer. I am basically asking if a counter-offer is an expected part of the process. This job is the first step of many that I’ll make so I’m not sweating it too hard. It’s just that some sources make it sound like every job offer should be greeted with a counter.[/quote]

Here is what you do:

  1. Take the job
  2. Keep your mouth shut, your head down
  3. come in before your boss
  4. Work your ass off
  5. leave after your boss comes home
  6. Educate yourself about your job outside of work
  7. be a team player
  8. in 6 months to a year, then ask for a raise, and have solid reasons as to why you deserve it.

Unless you already have experience and are a hot item in your field, the job market is tough today. Better to get in, prove your salt and then ask for more $, then you ask for it before you prove you are worth it.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]timbofirstblood wrote:
Thanks for the feedback. I don’t have much leverage, and frankly am satisfied with the offer. I am basically asking if a counter-offer is an expected part of the process. This job is the first step of many that I’ll make so I’m not sweating it too hard. It’s just that some sources make it sound like every job offer should be greeted with a counter.[/quote]

Here is what you do:

  1. Take the job
  2. Keep your mouth shut, your head down
  3. come in before your boss
  4. Work your ass off
  5. leave after your boss comes home
  6. Educate yourself about your job outside of work
  7. be a team player
  8. in 6 months to a year, then ask for a raise, and have solid reasons as to why you deserve it.

Unless you already have experience and are a hot item in your field, the job market is tough today. Better to get in, prove your salt and then ask for more $, then you ask for it before you prove you are worth it.

[/quote]

This is very good advice. The only thing I’d add is: learn as much as possible and do the best job you can; and, make sure you keep in touch with recruiters and folks while you’re in your current job, in the event that the raise doesn’t happen. Basically, even if they don’t recognize your value, make sure you’ve used that job to make yourself more valuable to other companies.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

Here is what you do:

  1. Take the job
  2. Keep your mouth shut, your head down
  3. come in before your boss
  4. Work your ass off
  5. leave after your boss comes home
  6. Educate yourself about your job outside of work
  7. be a team player
  8. in 6 months to a year, then ask for a raise, and have solid reasons as to why you deserve it.

Unless you already have experience and are a hot item in your field, the job market is tough today. Better to get in, prove your salt and then ask for more $, then you ask for it before you prove you are worth it.

[/quote]

Countingbeans wins the thread with this.

I would also add “active participation in meetings and discussions”. Do this, and come salary negotiation time they’ll remember your face and the contributions you’ve made.

Salary negotiation in general is a touchy thing. I’ve seen so many cases where an employer has rescinded an offer if the candidate appears even the least bit pushy. In this job market they can afford to, unless you’re a big swinging dick in whatever field you’re in

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]timbofirstblood wrote:
Thanks for the feedback. I don’t have much leverage, and frankly am satisfied with the offer. I am basically asking if a counter-offer is an expected part of the process. This job is the first step of many that I’ll make so I’m not sweating it too hard. It’s just that some sources make it sound like every job offer should be greeted with a counter.[/quote]

Here is what you do:

  1. Take the job
  2. Keep your mouth shut, your head down
  3. come in before your boss
  4. Work your ass off
  5. leave after your boss comes home
  6. Educate yourself about your job outside of work
  7. be a team player
  8. in 6 months to a year, then ask for a raise, and have solid reasons as to why you deserve it.

Unless you already have experience and are a hot item in your field, the job market is tough today. Better to get in, prove your salt and then ask for more $, then you ask for it before you prove you are worth it.

[/quote]

As an employer, myself, and as a former employee who successfully applied this formula to rise to the highest achievable position available at the job I held before starting my own business, I enthusiastically, passionately endorse my friend beans’ advice here.

The only thing I would add is that, if you REALLY do this, and I mean, you have to go ALL in, I can assure you that you can disregard number 8. I have an employee right now whom I almost have a hard time keeping up with, and there is no way in hell I am going to let him continue to work at the same salary and bonus he is currently receiving once contract negotiation time rolls around next year. Hell, as it is, he’s so good, I’m afraid to let him go.

If you are that guy, there is no limit to where you can go, what you can do, and certainly no limit to how much money you can earn. Even if you hit the ceiling at your current job, you’ll be prepared and experienced to move on to either a more powerful employer or strike out on your own.

Oh, and, at least from my perspective, first-time, untested employees DO NOT negotiate their starting salaries with me.

It demonstrates to me that you are more concerned about money than about my company. If I had a few different candidates, decided upon one, and all of a sudden he started talking about more money, before I’ve even had a demonstration that this guy is going to do what he says he’s going to do, it is highly likely I’ll be making another offer to one of my other candidates. And if they are happy with the job as-is, the first guy is going to get an unexpected phone call from me that he is not going to like.

The way the job market is now, employers generally hold the power when it comes to earnings. So I wouldn’t even dream of screwing things up if you got a solid job offer, just be happy you’re employed because there are people out there willing to take your offer for less money.

Also, countingbeans definitely won the thread lol.

Thanks for the tips guys. I will be signing the offer today.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]timbofirstblood wrote:
Thanks for the feedback. I don’t have much leverage, and frankly am satisfied with the offer. I am basically asking if a counter-offer is an expected part of the process. This job is the first step of many that I’ll make so I’m not sweating it too hard. It’s just that some sources make it sound like every job offer should be greeted with a counter.[/quote]

Here is what you do:

  1. Take the job
  2. Keep your mouth shut, your head down
  3. come in before your boss
  4. Work your ass off
  5. leave after your boss comes home
  6. Educate yourself about your job outside of work
  7. be a team player
  8. in 6 months to a year, then ask for a raise, and have solid reasons as to why you deserve it.

Unless you already have experience and are a hot item in your field, the job market is tough today. Better to get in, prove your salt and then ask for more $, then you ask for it before you prove you are worth it.

[/quote]

As a general rule this is awesome advice, the only ones I’d say to watch are 3 and 5 in some companies this is frowned upon because it means that either you don’t have a healthy work/life balance or if you’re not visibly accomplishing a lot in this time it just generally shows that you’re slow to get your work done so you have to put in extra hours. That doesn’t apply in every company by any means but before you dedicate yourself to 80-100 hour weeks make sure that it’s actually going to pay off. At a minimum I would say try to give an extra 10% to stand out as a dedicated hard worker but when i supervised staff at various jobs I was careful to ensure that their work load was doable in the time they were allotted. When i had staff who would constantly need to stay late or arrive early just to get it done I didn’t’ take well to it as it either meant they weren’t working at a good pace or they were drawing things out in an excuse to get more hours (they were all hourly and thus could get OT) and neither one made me particularely happy.

I’m not saying not to work longer hours, just to feel things out and not blindly assume its a great idea.

Really the only way you should be negotiating on a salary is if you’re prepared to walk away if the negotiation fails. Either because their offer is totally unreasonable in the market or because you have a better offer elsewhere and you’re giving them a chance to match it.

my two cents.

STU

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]timbofirstblood wrote:
Thanks for the feedback. I don’t have much leverage, and frankly am satisfied with the offer. I am basically asking if a counter-offer is an expected part of the process. This job is the first step of many that I’ll make so I’m not sweating it too hard. It’s just that some sources make it sound like every job offer should be greeted with a counter.[/quote]

Here is what you do:

  1. Take the job
  2. Keep your mouth shut, your head down
  3. come in before your boss
  4. Work your ass off
  5. leave after your boss comes home
  6. Educate yourself about your job outside of work
  7. be a team player
  8. in 6 months to a year, then ask for a raise, and have solid reasons as to why you deserve it.

Unless you already have experience and are a hot item in your field, the job market is tough today. Better to get in, prove your salt and then ask for more $, then you ask for it before you prove you are worth it.

[/quote]

Sweet.

It’s competitive every single day, make sure you’re striving to be on top, even though on most days it won’t seem like you are.

The corporate world is heavily political. Make of it what you will but this is how it works.

[quote]LoRez wrote:
While you’re already quite a bit past that point, one of the plusses of working with a recruiter is that they can insulate you from the salary negotiations. You can be pretty upfront with them about exactly how much you want to be paid, how much vacation/leave, etc.

My dialogue went pretty much like this:
“So, you’re probably looking in the $xx-$yy range?”
“That would be great, but isn’t it a bit higher than what I can expect?”
“It’s worth a try isn’t it?”
“Well, in that case, sure, that sounds fine.”

My recruiter talked me into about a 10% increase over what I reasonably thought I could get. (They got a percentage based commission on the deal, so it worked out well for everyone involved.)[/quote]

When your profile goes from the recruiter to the prospective company salary expectations go in. High level recruiters also discuss your push/pull factors for the new position. A recruiter is supposed to manage both candidate and employer expectations however there are shitty candidates as much as there are shitty recruiters and employers. I’ve seen all types in my professional career.

I think it’s worth always picking up salary surveys. Recruiters like Adecco and Hays put them out yearly. However the better ones ($$) are from Watson Wyatt and Mercer. Normally the last two is the go to for HR.

Know your worth.

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]timbofirstblood wrote:
Thanks for the feedback. I don’t have much leverage, and frankly am satisfied with the offer. I am basically asking if a counter-offer is an expected part of the process. This job is the first step of many that I’ll make so I’m not sweating it too hard. It’s just that some sources make it sound like every job offer should be greeted with a counter.[/quote]

Here is what you do:

  1. Take the job
  2. Keep your mouth shut, your head down
  3. come in before your boss
  4. Work your ass off
  5. leave after your boss comes home
  6. Educate yourself about your job outside of work
  7. be a team player
  8. in 6 months to a year, then ask for a raise, and have solid reasons as to why you deserve it.

Unless you already have experience and are a hot item in your field, the job market is tough today. Better to get in, prove your salt and then ask for more $, then you ask for it before you prove you are worth it.

[/quote]

As an employer, myself, and as a former employee who successfully applied this formula to rise to the highest achievable position available at the job I held before starting my own business, I enthusiastically, passionately endorse my friend beans’ advice here.

The only thing I would add is that, if you REALLY do this, and I mean, you have to go ALL in, I can assure you that you can disregard number 8. I have an employee right now whom I almost have a hard time keeping up with, and there is no way in hell I am going to let him continue to work at the same salary and bonus he is currently receiving once contract negotiation time rolls around next year. Hell, as it is, he’s so good, I’m afraid to let him go.

If you are that guy, there is no limit to where you can go, what you can do, and certainly no limit to how much money you can earn. Even if you hit the ceiling at your current job, you’ll be prepared and experienced to move on to either a more powerful employer or strike out on your own.

[/quote]

Was your business related to your job or did you start a business in something you were passionate about? Also props for doing it in Japan because business is tough in Japan, not impossible but tough. But also worth the effort. I’ve worked with Japanese clients my entire career, tough and rewarding.

This thread could prove useful to myself as well. On Wednesday the 24th Ill be having a my 3 month review. Going to be asking for a raise. The review is for promotion to Assistant manager. The possibility of a full Manager position at a second location has been mentioned. Ive been working my ass off and hate my job. Initial plan was to work here until I got the promotion and then use it as a bargaining chip to try for another job.
The owner is a woman who also publishes very womanny books like ‘be that girl’ etc. I want to be firm but not overstep my boundaries (also known as being ‘douchy’).

I’m just preparing myself for her coming up with some reason to not give me the raise/promotion, despite frequently telling me I’m a lifesaver and thanking me for going above and beyond with my duties. I have some of this praise documented in the form of texts and notes that she left me.

http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/9/f/9f499_ORIG-troll_face_problem.jpg

^ thread jack!

What a douche.