[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Then you go look up the bank histories.
[/quote]
I’m not the one trying to plan their payroll. They understand their business better than I do or our fabulous legislators.
“The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.
…stood in constant opposition to one another, carried on an uninterrupted, now hidden, now open fight, a fight that each time ended, either in a REVOLUTIONARY RE-CONSTITUTION OF SOCIETY AT LARGE, or in the COMMON RUIN of the CONTENDING CLASSES.”
Will it be true…again…in this nation?
I’m seeing alot of good points here but I don’t see anyone saying much about congress; overinflated salaries.
The regulations on the banks was lifted back under Clinton with the belief that every American should own a house. Then these crazy loans (e.g. interest only) were created. Then people went out and unethically had people buy into houses they could not afford. And then talked them into spending more money and taking out a second mortgage as ‘their home had increased 20% in value last month alone’.
Then you get banks with billions of bad debt based on the aforementioned stupid loans. Banks and financial institituions lead by people who should be good at math and should have seen that this massive escalation in housing ‘values’ was a farce.
Bottom line is these ‘financial gurus’ screwed up and cost us taxpayers nearly a trillion dollars. A trillion freaking dollars!!
To put that amount of money into perspective - if you were to start spending a million dollars a day since the day Christ was born - you would still NOT have spent a trillion dollars. And that is SICK.
Look, I am a capitalist to the core. But there are consequences for screwing up.
By comparion to the financial guys, congress gets paid very little (even if you compared it to the proposed caps).
If you really want to get to some of the brass tacks, look at the wages being paid to some of these unions. Cars made in Detriot cost $71/hour (total compensation) versus cars made in Tenn. at $49/hour.
But lets bail them out too. Except without consequences because the Dumb-ocrats and the Oba-manics were elected by the unions and the ‘working man’.
If we are going to regulate salaries, why not across the board?
Looks like the Big 3 have cost us all as well.
[quote]Dr_Razor wrote:
By comparion to the financial guys, congress gets paid very little (even if you compared it to the proposed caps).
If you really want to get to some of the brass tacks, look at the wages being paid to some of these unions. Cars made in Detriot cost $71/hour (total compensation) versus cars made in Tenn. at $49/hour.
But lets bail them out too. Except without consequences because the Dumb-ocrats and the Oba-manics were elected by the unions and the ‘working man’.
If we are going to regulate salaries, why not across the board?
Looks like the Big 3 have cost us all as well.[/quote]
Why don't we cap salaries of rpo athletes, actors, musicians, authors, etc. why should anyone make so much money.
Because it’s a stupid idea, that’s why. Government cpas one salary, they should cap them all. And we all get to vote on what everyone should make. Friggin retards.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
pat wrote:
That’s all fine and dandy, but they asked for the government intervention because they are idiots who fucked up. So government intervention is what they got. Usually, I am totally against governement intrusion, but if you invite the bull into the china shop, what happens next is your fault.
So now you want gov’t to do something that make absolutly no economical sense? Again?
If you want return on you investment, this is not a good policy. Plain and simple.[/quote]
There is a difference here. These guys accepted and welcomed the help of the government. Now the government wants to push them around…Well, if they want to do what they want they need to return all the money they took and then they can do what they want. If you accept millions of dollars from somebody to save your business they have a say what happens to their money…It’s kind of tough shit.
Second, a salary/bonus is compensation for a job well done…If you suck at your job, you have not earned millions of dollars…You’ve earned shit.If I suck at my job they’ll fire me…
In this market, attracting talent is no problem…Some dickhead coming into the a situation where the company is on the teetering edge of failure should not expect a whopping paycheck. If they do, they are too stupid for the job, strait up. If they kick-ass, save the company and pay off their debts, then they deserve a large pay out, but not before.
You have to have rocks in your head to think that you deserve a huge paycheck after you totally failed in your job…
[quote]Sloth wrote:
I’m sure there’s a good many who’d love to see laws enacted to enforce caps like this for the entire nation.[/quote]
They main difference here is government intervention was invited in not forced. If you don’t want the government to have a say in your business practices, don’t beg them to save your ass.
The difference here as opposed to “Joe Blow’s widget factory” is that the intrusion was invited and welcomed with open arms. If the government were just trying to limit pay for people, I’d be royally pissed, but key difference is that with out Uncle Sam these guys would have folded and they wouldn’t be making even 500k…They’d be making shit. Who’s going to hire a CEO who fucked up the last company he was at?..That’s a tough sell right there.
[quote]tom63 wrote:
Dr_Razor wrote:
By comparion to the financial guys, congress gets paid very little (even if you compared it to the proposed caps).
If you really want to get to some of the brass tacks, look at the wages being paid to some of these unions. Cars made in Detriot cost $71/hour (total compensation) versus cars made in Tenn. at $49/hour.
But lets bail them out too. Except without consequences because the Dumb-ocrats and the Oba-manics were elected by the unions and the ‘working man’.
If we are going to regulate salaries, why not across the board?
Looks like the Big 3 have cost us all as well.
Why don't we cap salaries of rpo athletes, actors, musicians, authors, etc. why should anyone make so much money.
[/quote]
Because they didn’t ask the government for billions of tax dollars to save their ass. That’s why…If they do, you can bet salaries will get capped.
You don’t want government intrusion ask them to stay out, not come in.
[quote]pat wrote:
tom63 wrote:
Dr_Razor wrote:
By comparion to the financial guys, congress gets paid very little (even if you compared it to the proposed caps).
If you really want to get to some of the brass tacks, look at the wages being paid to some of these unions. Cars made in Detriot cost $71/hour (total compensation) versus cars made in Tenn. at $49/hour.
But lets bail them out too. Except without consequences because the Dumb-ocrats and the Oba-manics were elected by the unions and the ‘working man’.
If we are going to regulate salaries, why not across the board?
Looks like the Big 3 have cost us all as well.
Why don't we cap salaries of rpo athletes, actors, musicians, authors, etc. why should anyone make so much money.
Because they didn’t ask the government for billions of tax dollars to save their ass. That’s why…If they do, you can bet salaries will get capped.
You don’t want government intrusion ask them to stay out, not come in.
[/quote]
Probably the first time that I ever remember agreeing with you on anything, but it’s true.
People need to stop acting like they’ve placed a cap on every CEO out there- they haven’t. What they’ve done is, like Pat said, eliminated the huge bonuses for those who needed help from the gov’t.
Look at what I posted- some of these guys are making between 50-75 million a year in bonuses. How republicans, who always claim to want small government and less taxes, are OK with massive amounts of tax money going to the already super-rich, amazes me.
IMO, don’t worry about the carrots, go with the sticks.
Take gov’t funds, make over $500K (blow $100K in Vegas, buy private jets, drink the blood of baby seals, etc.) if your title begins with a ‘C’, you become personally responsible for any red cent your company has at the end of the next fiscal year.
In this case, ‘the best talent will run like the plague’ argument don’t work. If the Chief does his/her job and the company is solvent, they’re reimbursed appropriately. Only those for whom it is too risky or those who are excessively averse to risk will flee.
The problem isn’t corporate fat cats getting overpaid, it’s diffusion of blame. Corporate entities lack the willingness and/or ability to pursue failed former leaders. Anybody would be stupid not to take a $1M/yr. job for five years if the worst thing to happen if you failed was getting fired.
IMO, in many ways, this reflects many of the failings of the previous administration (e.g. I can’t blame Bush/Cheney for failures in Iraq without blaming the democratic congress).
[quote]pat wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I’m sure there’s a good many who’d love to see laws enacted to enforce caps like this for the entire nation.
They main difference here is government intervention was invited in not forced. If you don’t want the government to have a say in your business practices, don’t beg them to save your ass.
The difference here as opposed to “Joe Blow’s widget factory” is that the intrusion was invited and welcomed with open arms. If the government were just trying to limit pay for people, I’d be royally pissed, but key difference is that with out Uncle Sam these guys would have folded and they wouldn’t be making even 500k…They’d be making shit. Who’s going to hire a CEO who fucked up the last company he was at?..That’s a tough sell right there. [/quote]
My issue with this stems from the beginning. They never, ever, should have been bailed out with tax dollars. There never should’ve been any intervention to even invite. That was insult number one. Number two is the insult of Washington folks deciding what is good and proper for these entities now. Washington. Since when did they learn how to balance bugets, keep solvency (SS, medicare/aid?), keep costs down and debts low?
Just because Washington is stupid enough to hand out this money, doesn’t mean I want to see them getting used to telling the piglets suckling at their teets what they should be doing.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
pat wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I’m sure there’s a good many who’d love to see laws enacted to enforce caps like this for the entire nation.
They main difference here is government intervention was invited in not forced. If you don’t want the government to have a say in your business practices, don’t beg them to save your ass.
The difference here as opposed to “Joe Blow’s widget factory” is that the intrusion was invited and welcomed with open arms. If the government were just trying to limit pay for people, I’d be royally pissed, but key difference is that with out Uncle Sam these guys would have folded and they wouldn’t be making even 500k…They’d be making shit. Who’s going to hire a CEO who fucked up the last company he was at?..That’s a tough sell right there.
My issue with this stems from the beginning. They never, ever, should have been bailed out with tax dollars. There never should’ve been any intervention to even invite. That was insult number one. Number two is the insult of Washington folks deciding what is good and proper for these entities now. Washington. Since when did they learn how to balance bugets, keep solvency (SS, medicare/aid?), keep costs down and debts low?
Just because Washington is stupid enough to hand out this money, doesn’t mean I want to see them getting used to telling the piglets suckling at their teets what they should be doing.[/quote]
I agree, fuck’em let them fail they deserve it. But if you let a monster into your bed, don’t be surprised when it sleeps there. The government does plenty to intrude with out being invited, you beg them to come on in, don’t be surprised when they try to run your business.
Second, it’s one thing to use the mula for payroll, it’s a whole other to pay yourself a lavish salary, particularly when you suck at your job and have failed your company and it’s employees.
As far as paying them what they deserve, they don’t deserve dick. They did a horrible job and should be fired.