[quote]hedo wrote:
How about salary caps for congress when they screw up.
By the way $500K is not a big comp package for Wall St. guys if you are good at what you do.[/quote]
“If you are good at what you do” why the shit do you need taxpayer money, and obviously, taxpayers for bosses (now)?
[quote]msd0060 wrote:
hedo wrote:
How about salary caps for congress when they screw up.
By the way $500K is not a big comp package for Wall St. guys if you are good at what you do.
“If you are good at what you do” why the shit do you need taxpayer money, and obviously, taxpayers for bosses (now)?[/quote]
People forget that it was Government intervention that pressured banks to make bad loans while still getting a profit.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
excellent analysis!
How many game theorists did you have to consult to figure this out?
;)[/quote]
Well, a bit off topic. I have been reading about game theory and I am just not seeing any relevence when it comes to macro economics. I’ve always enjoyed math, so it’s interesting but I am just not tying the two together.
Anyway, the web seems to be a dead end for me at this point. I may try and find a book that ties game theory to macro economics. I personally don’t think economics is really all that complicated, but I am open to other theories.
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
msd0060 wrote:
hedo wrote:
How about salary caps for congress when they screw up.
By the way $500K is not a big comp package for Wall St. guys if you are good at what you do.
“If you are good at what you do” why the shit do you need taxpayer money, and obviously, taxpayers for bosses (now)?
People forget that it was Government intervention that pressured banks to make bad loans while still getting a profit.[/quote]
I will also add that not every bank wanted the money, but it was made very clear that they were expected to take the money. Wells Fargo is an example. They were fine and did not want gov’t money. They are now under pressure to cut bonuses they would have paid out without gov’t money.
My mom is a regional AVP for the company. She won the highest award for performance the company offers and was given a cruise. The cruise has now been rescinded because of public scrutiny. My parents are squarely in the middle class. They don?t have a tremendous amount of disposable income, so this was a big deal. My mom also works insane hours and doesn?t have much of a life outside of work.
Sometimes these issues are not as cut and dry as people would like to think. I guess it?s just easier to listen to rhetoric than actually think past the immediate or obvious effects.
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
They are getting Federal money because they fucked up so badly that it’s caused a world recession.
And some of the places, after they got the money, had parties worth hundreds of thousands of dollars and I read somewhere one of them was going to buy a damn private plane.
These CEOs make something like 247 times the amount that workers make. They made that much so they could fuck up and destroy everything. I’m not seeing how a cap is a bad thing. You fuck up, you don’t get your way anymore.
I say good.
Then I guess you will be good when the Government comes in and tells you what to make, how to make it, and how much you get for it huh?
You compare their salary to “workers”? You cannot compare an executive who makes decisions and makes policies that drive company profits to a desk clerk who files deposits. Yeah they failed…but you are putting a noose around the job that will kill any type of “progressive” thinking…to use a word you may like.
The Socialist/Communist playbook has been bought by you hook line and sinker.[/quote]
Once upon a time, the CEO’s were at least somewhere near comparable to the people who worked for them. Do CEO’s deserve more? Of course. Do they deserve million dollar bonuses while they lay off the guy who makes $50k and has kids to feed but can’t find another job (all the while the corporation is getting this money from the government?) No.
As someone else said, they failed at their job. Their business is down to nothing, and they’re receiving help from the government just to keep it alive. Does that warrant a bonus? Because in most other places, it warrants a pink slip.
No one is putting a noose on anything. These guys still get paid more in one year than most of us will ever see our lives- but they’re not allowed these ridiculous bonuses on the taxpayer’s dime.
That’s hardly “communist” Mr. McCarthy.
And what’s with the tone? You are getting bitter and angry in your old age, my friend.
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
They are getting Federal money because they fucked up so badly that it’s caused a world recession.
If you mean forcing them through Government prosecution via Janet Reno to provide loans to any schmoe…and especially minority schmoes without credit or jobs…then yes, they fucked up.
The banks should have told THE AG to fuck off in the Clinton term.
[/quote]
We’ve been through this many times. No one party, no one policy caused all of this. It was greed on a mass scale. What you are typing is just Rush Limbaugh dittohead garbage.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
They are getting Federal money because they fucked up so badly that it’s caused a world recession.
And some of the places, after they got the money, had parties worth hundreds of thousands of dollars and I read somewhere one of them was going to buy a damn private plane.
These CEOs make something like 247 times the amount that workers make. They made that much so they could fuck up and destroy everything. I’m not seeing how a cap is a bad thing. You fuck up, you don’t get your way anymore.
I say good.
Then I guess you will be good when the Government comes in and tells you what to make, how to make it, and how much you get for it huh?
You compare their salary to “workers”? You cannot compare an executive who makes decisions and makes policies that drive company profits to a desk clerk who files deposits. Yeah they failed…but you are putting a noose around the job that will kill any type of “progressive” thinking…to use a word you may like.
The Socialist/Communist playbook has been bought by you hook line and sinker.
Once upon a time, the CEO’s were at least somewhere near comparable to the people who worked for them. Do CEO’s deserve more? Of course. Do they deserve million dollar bonuses while they lay off the guy who makes $50k and has kids to feed but can’t find another job (all the while the corporation is getting this money from the government?) No.
As someone else said, they failed at their job. Their business is down to nothing, and they’re receiving help from the government just to keep it alive. Does that warrant a bonus? Because in most other places, it warrants a pink slip.
No one is putting a noose on anything. These guys still get paid more in one year than most of us will ever see our lives- but they’re not allowed these ridiculous bonuses on the taxpayer’s dime.
That’s hardly “communist” Mr. McCarthy.
And what’s with the tone? You are getting bitter and angry in your old age, my friend.
[/quote]
You keep breaking it down to “fairness”.
I believe our government got these banks where they are, so in that I don’t believe the government should have any further say at all…nor should they have plugged the money to these banks either.
This is the beginning of nationalization at a grand scale, which as an educated man, you can see where that will not work for the USA taxpayer.
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
They are getting Federal money because they fucked up so badly that it’s caused a world recession.
And some of the places, after they got the money, had parties worth hundreds of thousands of dollars and I read somewhere one of them was going to buy a damn private plane.
These CEOs make something like 247 times the amount that workers make. They made that much so they could fuck up and destroy everything. I’m not seeing how a cap is a bad thing. You fuck up, you don’t get your way anymore.
I say good.
Then I guess you will be good when the Government comes in and tells you what to make, how to make it, and how much you get for it huh?
You compare their salary to “workers”? You cannot compare an executive who makes decisions and makes policies that drive company profits to a desk clerk who files deposits. Yeah they failed…but you are putting a noose around the job that will kill any type of “progressive” thinking…to use a word you may like.
The Socialist/Communist playbook has been bought by you hook line and sinker.
Once upon a time, the CEO’s were at least somewhere near comparable to the people who worked for them. Do CEO’s deserve more? Of course. Do they deserve million dollar bonuses while they lay off the guy who makes $50k and has kids to feed but can’t find another job (all the while the corporation is getting this money from the government?) No.
As someone else said, they failed at their job. Their business is down to nothing, and they’re receiving help from the government just to keep it alive. Does that warrant a bonus? Because in most other places, it warrants a pink slip.
No one is putting a noose on anything. These guys still get paid more in one year than most of us will ever see our lives- but they’re not allowed these ridiculous bonuses on the taxpayer’s dime.
That’s hardly “communist” Mr. McCarthy.
And what’s with the tone? You are getting bitter and angry in your old age, my friend.
You keep breaking it down to “fairness”.
I believe our government got these banks where they are, so in that I don’t believe the government should have any further say at all…nor should they have plugged the money to these banks either.
This is the beginning of nationalization at a grand scale, which as an educated man, you can see where that will not work for the USA taxpayer.[/quote]
So when I bemoaned the loss of civil rights during the Bush Administration, I was called crazy. But now, for something like this that will never effect any of us posting on this board in our lifetimes, this is the slippery slope into government rule??
Take that tin foil hat off. The banks, along with Wall Street, did all of this on their own. This is what happens with unregulated capitalism. Even stupid ass W saw this coming, but everyone brushed him off like he was the town drunk at a bar (ironically).
Nationalization my ass. Nothing will be nationalized. This is just reactionary craziness.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
I will also add that not every bank wanted the money, but it was made very clear that they were expected to take the money. Wells Fargo is an example. They were fine and did not want gov’t money. They are now under pressure to cut bonuses they would have paid out without gov’t money.
Sometimes these issues are not as cut and dry as people would like to think. I guess it?s just easier to listen to rhetoric than actually think past the immediate or obvious effects.
[/quote]
This just doesn’t fly a healthy bank being FORCED to take government bailout funds is bullshit.
There are plenty of innocent and hard working bank employees out there who will be impacted by this and miss a bonus or some perk - so what? Why should it be the tax payers problem? Take it up with the guys running the company. Sometimes the issues are cut and dry as this one is.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Nationalization my ass. Nothing will be nationalized. This is just reactionary craziness. [/quote]
Do you read the news? Banks all over the world have already been nationalised.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Once upon a time, the CEO’s were at least somewhere near comparable to the people who worked for them. Do CEO’s deserve more?
[/quote]
when?
This is way too simple. need does not determine pay. well it does in some economic systems. They just don’t work very well.
Again, how very simple of you. How do you know they didn’t save their company money as compared to what other available CEOs would have done? Performance is not absolute.
Like any investment, this should have been negotiated ahead of time. It may very well have changed the agreement or investment.
Fascism approaching communism.
[quote]JamFly wrote:
dhickey wrote:
I will also add that not every bank wanted the money, but it was made very clear that they were expected to take the money. Wells Fargo is an example. They were fine and did not want gov’t money. They are now under pressure to cut bonuses they would have paid out without gov’t money.
Sometimes these issues are not as cut and dry as people would like to think. I guess it?s just easier to listen to rhetoric than actually think past the immediate or obvious effects.
This just doesn’t fly a healthy bank being FORCED to take government bailout funds is bullshit.
There are plenty of innocent and hard working bank employees out there who will be impacted by this and miss a bonus or some perk - so what? Why should it be the tax payers problem? Take it up with the guys running the company. Sometimes the issues are cut and dry as this one is.
[/quote]
You are really making yourself look stupid here. Maybe a little research is in order. Don’t take my word for it…watch the news genius. Look at the financials of wells fargo pre bailout, genius. watch the interview with their CEO, genius.
They are not the only one. Don’t be so ill informed if you want to debate the issue.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Once upon a time, the CEO’s were at least somewhere near comparable to the people who worked for them. Do CEO’s deserve more?
when?
[/quote]
Please. It’s not an irrational thought for the boss to not get paid 800 times what the worker does. Yea, it’s a simple thought, but it’s right.
I don’t know the history of each company, and I"m not about to look it up. But again- not irrational to say that the companies that get a bailout are not allowed to throw it all to their CEO’s.
It’s not all companies, but if you’re using tax dollars, then you’re fucked. Sorry.
They fucked up and begged for help. Although it is coming, there are restrictions placed on that help. You neocons should like it- it’s kind of like working welfare.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Take that tin foil hat off. The banks, along with Wall Street, did all of this on their own.
[/quote]
You obviously are not familiar with supply and demand and what happens when you artificially inflate or deflate either.
Capitalism is more regulated today than it has ever been in the history of this country.
To be fair there were people behind the scenes pushing W along becuase they couldn’t get through Frank, Dodd, and Shcumer on their own. Rod Grahm was one of them. He also found some Republicans unwilling to lend support becuase of family working for Fannie or Freddie.
[quote]
Nationalization my ass. Nothing will be nationalized. This is just reactionary craziness. [/quote]
Dude…come on.
Because this isn’t absolutely ridiculous anyway- no, I want my tax dollars going to make this a little more insane:
http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/storysupplement/ceopay/index.html
Listen dh, I don’t need a doctorate in economics to know what’s right and what’s wrong.
Does the boss deserve more? Yes, absolutely. Does he deserve 821 times more? No, that’s ridiculous.
Does he deserve 821 times more even though it’s being paid by tax money and bonds because he and his cohorts didn’t get it right with investors money?
To quote you, “dude, c’mon.”
I’m sure there’s a good many who’d love to see laws enacted to enforce caps like this for the entire nation.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Please. It’s not an irrational thought for the boss to not get paid 800 times what the worker does. Yea, it’s a simple thought, but it’s right.
[/quote]
If you, or anyone, refused to rationalize it will concrete facts or specifics, I would say irrational is appropriate.
Don’t care to look at details but claim to know what’s best. You should run for office.
You refuse to look at the facts. How can you say they fucked up and begged for help? That’s a pretty sweeping statement for someone to make when they can’t be bothered to look at the specifics. Way to go.
Most people did not support the bailout. I am not a neocon and don’t like any kind of welfare.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Listen dh, I don’t need a doctorate in economics to know what’s right and what’s wrong.
[/quote]
You could start by reading a single book on economics.
How much then?
[quote]
Does he deserve 821 times more even though it’s being paid by tax money and bonds because he and his cohorts didn’t get it right with investors money?
To quote you, “dude, c’mon.”[/quote]
Again, great rhetoric. Too bad no specifics or rationalization.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
I don’t know the history of each company, and I"m not about to look it up. But again- not irrational to say that the companies that get a bailout are not allowed to throw it all to their CEO’s.
It’s not all companies, but if you’re using tax dollars, then you’re fucked. Sorry.
Don’t care to look at details but claim to know what’s best. You should run for office.
[/quote]
Right, because everyone on this board does all their homework on everything all the time.
And I’m the irrational one. Go fucking figure.
Then you go look up the bank histories.