Well, I think what I’m going to do is a 80mg TBOL only cycle for 6 weeks and see what happens. Var is just so damn expensive for the small boost it’s going to give. After reading several tbol/var cycle logs, virtually everyone says that if they had to do it over they would do more tbol and probably not bother with the var. If I get decent gains, and keep a good portion of it after PCT, I’ll try the same cycle again down the road and play with the dosages depending on my results. If I’m disappointed after this initial cycle I’ll go with a Test e cycle next time around.
[quote]muscle_meathead wrote:
Bill, is oxandrolone a both a class I and Class II in higher doses? [/quote]
It might well be the case, and I would guess probably is, that all the anabolic steroids have mixed activity to some degree, but some are very predominantly in one direction, others are very predominantly in the other direction. Perhaps only testosterone is fairly equally balanced in all mechanisms of action.
But so far as the stacking behavior, I didn’t find 150 mg/day of oxandrolone to be nearly as effective as 75 mg/day each of oxandrolone and oxymetholone.
[quote]balisong wrote:
Mr Roberts, if you had to pick one class 1 steroid and one class 2 steroid, which ones would in your opinion form the greatest synergy, assuming access to the most common types of orals and injectibles?
Would tren E and dbol be one of the most powerfull stacks?
I realize most wouldn’t use 700mgs of dbol a week, while for test this would be a fairly common dosage, but assuming one were adventurous enough to go with a stack like, 700 mg tren E and 700mg dbol, would this yield greater results than same dosages of tren E and test E? Estrogen being kept under controll with an appropriate AI.[/quote]
Trenbolone and Dianabol is an outstanding combination. Any mixture of a Class I and a Class II – or usage of testosterone alone – can equal the mass and strength results of another stack: it’s just that the dosages and side effects may and probably will differ.
That was the reasoning behind me picking anadrol and trenbolone in another thread. A class I and II mixture, and arguably two of the most powerful of each. Is this as good a combination as I’m expecting? And is it possible to stack those two steroids on top of a testosterone/nandrolone base stack or would you envisage any problems with this? Bp is the obvious one. Do you have any thoughts on raised blood pressure during a cycle?
So what is the reasoning behind mixing class I and II steroids? Is it a side effect thing or just maximizing the gains?
In the example where Bill talked about dianabol and oxandrolone, is it necessary to take both to equal out some side effects or what is it? I thought the old school bodybuilders did dianabol only for years with no or little side effects and fantastic gains.
[quote]pupp wrote:
So what is the reasoning behind mixing class I and II steroids? Is it a side effect thing or just maximizing the gains?
In the example where Bill talked about dianabol and oxandrolone, is it necessary to take both to equal out some side effects or what is it? I thought the old school bodybuilders did dianabol only for years with no or little side effects and fantastic gains.[/quote]
Google “class I class II synergy”. You’ll find write ups by Bill on another website.
OP, I did my first cycle 6 years ago, and someone else did the hots for me (poorly)
I’ve still never been able to inject into my shoulders and couldn’t face up to ED injections (EOD was the most frequent for me) until recently when I started using the preloaded insulin needle’s protocol form either Bonez or BBB (maybe it wasn’t theirs one of them told me about it) I know a few people who had a pathological fear of needles yet overcame it eventually.
Step one would be getting a buddy at the gym to do shots for you, use Cypionate or something long acting so you only need to pester them twice a week to do your shots and after a couple of cycles you’ll most likely feel more relaxed about the whole injecting thing until you are comfortable with doing it yourself.
Good luck
I was actually paralyzed by needles at first.
I used to get light headed just getting immunizations at the doctor’s.
I had EOD injections in my first cycles, I shot only quads and glutes, the first shot took me about 15 minutes to get done.
Just sack up, get the needle going fast and dont think about it. I did my first one sitting on the ground so that I could immediately lay down if I was gonna pass out.
You just have to want the steroids more than you fear needles, took me about a week to not care about injections.
Hahaha Westclock! That sounds so much like me… too funny! I’m going to do a six week TBOL cycle just to see what kind of results it gives me. If I’m disappointed with the results my next cycle will definitely be test e with a dbol kickstarter. Got to get over that motherf!#ing fear at one point!!
Honestly its not unusual to start out with orals only when you think about it.
Many of us started piddling around with PH’s before graduating to the real stuff. I know I did.
You get a little taste of the stuff with those OTC, semi legal orals and then nothing can stop you from getting more.
That initial taste motivates you, lets you know what you want.
I spent a few weeks marking out the injection sites, checking I could find them, looking at the mirror from different angles trying to get a feel for the landmarks. The first shot I did was in the right VG, and I’m glad I chose that, because it was completely painless. That gave me more confidence to try the other sites. It’s really so easy to do IM injections once you’ve got it down, you will wonder what you were ever scared of.
Think this is a tad relevant to the OP. Anyway, maybe some have some comments to this post. Is there any logic behind Dr.D’s reasoning?
Originally Posted by Dr.D
A lot of guys have been asking me to clarify my method on this cycling technique, so here’s a good explanation if you’re interested in trying this. It can generally be applied to any steroidal compound.
What is “pulse” cycling? Pulsing is a method of dosing a product designed to intentionally avoid potential long term side effects such as HPTA suppression and liver damage. This technique is usually applied as a means of toxicity control when potent corticoids are used on children requiring long term therapy. However, this method can really be applied to anyone using any oral steroid with great success and significantly reduced side effects. With pulsing, the serious, long term side effects of chronic oral treatment are avoided and short term side effect, like acne and mineral retention, are milder that usual. This also allows for higher doses to be used since the dosing is less frequent.
For example, if you would normally take a product at 30mg/day for a week, that means a total intake of 210mg/week. With pulsing, you might take 40mg on work out days only 3 times per week and that only comes out to 120mg/week total! This provides the needed benefits of the product at the most crucial times, which are just before and just after a work out, and offers a means of strongly attenuated suppression of endogenous steroid production. In other words, you can pulse a compound for 6-8 weeks usually before you realistically need to start thinking about a conventional post cycle therapy. In fact, after a 4 week pulsing cycle, PCT should not even be required in most cases!
Basically, if you dose every day (ED) in perfectly spaced doses, you will achieve 100% effect, 100% short term side effects and 100% long term side effects. If you dose every other day (EOD) like the pulse protocol, you still get about 60% effect and 75% short term sides but only about 40% of the long term sides. That’s not a bad trade off and very economical on the body and the wallet too! Of course, if you would have gained 10 pounds on a normal 1 month cycle, this means you will only gain about 6 pounds pulsing, but it also means you can do this for twice as long as a normal cycle. That equals about 2 months worth of worry free dosing, so the net effect is a gain of about 12 pounds over 2 months instead of 10 pounds over 1 month. This structure offers fewer sides and a milder post cycle therapy requirements (if even needed at all) plus the slower gains tend to have a better residual that is more likely to be permanent compared to faster gains. It’s a great long term strategy and good for newer users too looking to run fast, clean cycles for 1 month with no PCT needed later.
There are two good approaches to it:
- EOD
- 2 days on / 2 days off
Depending on your workout schedule, I would use one of these two options for optimal pulsing efficiency. Doses can usually be high (like 40-50mg instead of 20-30mg) but take them close together preferably before 6pm. It’s not crucial you take the last dose before 6pm, but the earlier the better at avoiding shut down. Take half of the total dose pre work out and half post work out instead of spread out evenly over the whole day like a normal cycle. If an odd dose is to be used, like 30mg, take the majority pre work out (so 20mg pre/10mg post). When pulsing, dose at least 3 times per week but not more than 4 times.
Also important to remember is nutrition. Have a good, high calorie post work out meal and eat sufficient protein, especially on off days. Off days are also a good time to take a cortisol antagonist or even just low dose DHEA (25-50mg) if you are a slow healer or hard gainer especially. Although pulsing is a great way to avoid suppression, if you are extra sensitive to shut down or using a compound that will normally cause very fast shut down, an AI based test booster can be administered on off days or daily to further punctuate the hormonal “bounce back” in the quest to avoid the need for post cycle therapy post cycle. The bounce back phenomenon is an effect that is often noted when pulsing. It is not uncommon for testicular size and testosterone levels to increase above baseline on consecutive off days or after the cycle is over. This is like a built in PCT effect you may experiences after properly pulsed hormone use. As a teen, I was able to employee this method successfully for 3 years without needing a PCT, so I can say it works very well! In pulsing, it is also important to remember that the smaller number of dose exposures means faster liver clearance. Normal safety ancillaries like healthy oils and lipid supplements are advised, but be modest with liver products like milk thistle. They are generally counter productive and therefore not advised while pulsing, except with very toxic or potent compounds. Cycle safe!
Example of a 3x/wk pulse M,W,F:
Week/Dose(mg)
1 (10,20,30)
2 30
3 30-40
4 30-40
5 30-50
6 30-50
7 30-60
8 30-60
Example of a 4x/wk pulse Sat,Sun & Wed,Thur:
Week/Dose(mg)
1 (10,20,30,30)
2 30
3 30-40
4 30-40
5 30-50
6 30-50