This is the only good thing to come out of this so called ‘war’.
They should release the pictures, just so we can be sure. The administration is definitely short on credibility. Haven’t they already killed Saddam Hussein, twice…
Oh, US=GG, if you knew me, I would be at the top of your list, taking into account my name, skin color, religion and ethnic background…
z-man,
You are wrong. People don’t make my list based on any of the criteria you mentioned. I do not like the insinuation you are making. It is as shallow as it is wrong. I am definetly anti-dumbass. Fools come in all shapes, colors, and ethnic backgrounds. I challenge you to find ONE ANTI-SEMETIC OR RACIST COMMENT IN ALL OF MY POSTS!!! I hope you are man/woman enough to admit that you were wrong in your assertion. I’ll bet you are not.
If you are just another jealous anti-American, then you are in. I haven’t read your posts enough to know if you are a fool. However, based on your callous, unfounded insinuation, you have made a good start toward joining the bad guys.
Restless, you must have me confused, as I am well aware of doing things by the law.
mamann, they wouldn’t be tried in this country. Remember milosevic? They would be tried as war criminals by the UN.
"Restless, you must have me confused, as I am well aware of doing things by the law. "
Maybe I am.
"mamann, they wouldn’t be tried in this country. Remember milosevic? They would be tried as war criminals by the UN. "
I don’t think they could legally be charged of anything when the military action that would have resulted in their capture is also illegal from the start. I’m not sure but I would thing there would be some necessary legal procedures and it wouldn’t be possible to do so based on lies like Bush and Blair did.
Z, in order to make the list, you have to be a good person, caring and respectful. You are all of those things, so it’s a wonder you haven’t made the list.
I’m not sure I understand their decision to kill them. They knew the house they were in, they had it surrounded, and made a concious decision to kill. The commanding officer said it was the “right decision”, to quote a New York Times article today.
Seems like they would have been worth a lot more, both for information and morale, alive, and tried in an international court.
I guess the decision was strategic, after the soliders were injured trying to enter the house, but I would have guessed they would have tried flash bangs, tear gas, or something else…
Rumbach…they tried to let them surrender before taking them out. Whats so hard to understand about that?
One point I think is being missed here is that the soldiers first approached the people in the house and asked to search the residence.
The inhabitants declined, and then followed with gunfire at the soldiers.
The soldiers responded by gunning the living shit out of them. Sounds logical to me.
Besides, do a little research into the atrocities committed by these two, and you’ll find they are beyond normal comprehension.
The fuckers are dead. Hopefully they died a slow death. Fuck 'em.
Well, stop and think for a minute please.
First, I know all the horrible shit these two have done - I’ve read their biographies.
Second, the United States was acting on a tip off - as I understand it (correct me if I’m wrong), they were informed to the whereabouts of the Hussein brothers. They knew approaching the house that this was, at least potentially, their hideout.
So, US forces were fired upon.
Okay, but this is not normal circumstances - these are #2 and #3 on the most wanted list. Leaders of the military, special republican guard, rulers of Baghdad, etc.
Point is, they would have had a wealth of information. Plus, they were an important pair to hold up to the world and say “look at these two assholes, this is why we are right”
Again, seems strange they didn’t attempt non-lethal methods for securing them. They seem worth more alive.
Good point, Rumbach.
I’m guessing that possibly there was a feeling that there was no way in hell these two would come out alive, thereby disgracing their father, even if it meant suicide.
Tough call, but I, personally, have no regrets.
You’re telling me that 200 soldiers (plus air support) totally surrounding a villa can’t work out between 'em an alternative option to blowing the bastards away!?
Is that what they call US military intelligience?
yep, imagine all they couldve found out from them alive.
that woulda been a SCORE!
who knows what the hell happened, none but the military were there and doubt we’ll hear everything that took place.
oh, maybe they even coulda found those pesky WMDs… ooooh maybe thats why they were rolled… mmm…
Kuri and Ste,
Would it have been alright with you if we had to torture the shit out of them to get intelligence from them?
"Kuri and Ste,
Would it have been alright with you if we had to torture the shit out of them to get intelligence from them? "
IT wouldn’t be anything you haven’t done in the recent past. WHat about the law? You claim being a democratic state but you don’t even give people a chance to be trialed? How come?
Absolutely!
Better still, AFTER TAKING THE OPPORTUNITY TO GLEEN AS MUCH INFO FROM THEM AS POSS, strip them naked and lock them in a room with all of the iraqi women they raped and iraqi men they had beaten over the years - a big room I know. That would be justice.
The world was always gonna be a better place with these two out of the way. It was just an opportunity missed that’s all.
US=GG, you, John Ashcroft, Ann Coulter, Billy Graham, and Jerry Falwell share a similar thought pattern. And that is to group 1.2 billion people into a category defined by 19 hijackers. This is racism, whether you like the label or not. Too bad it hurts your feelings. Here’s a tissue, cry me a river…
The good old USA provided support to Saddam Hussein in his war against Iran. When I was in Saudi in 1986, billions of dollars and weapons were being funneled from the states through Saudi into Iraq. This was common knowledge on the street. Most Arab states supported Iraq because Irans is not an Arab country. In 1988 when Saddam Hussein used chemical weapons against the Kurds in Halabja, the US did nothing. To quote CBC, “After 1988 business with Iraq actually increased. By 1989, Iraq was given American agricultural guarantees worth $1 billion. Iraq was the largest importer of U.S. rice and the 2nd largest participant in the agricultural credit program.”
A MUST READ
http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/kurds/
These don’t seem like the actions of a country concerned with the actions of a military dictator. You obviously know nothing about the history of the region.
There is absolutely no way that they want to take these guys alive. Saddam Hussein has too much dirt on the US, and a trial would just bring that to the surface. This will not happen.
The United States only turned against Iraq after the invaded Kuwait, practically an American colony. And incase you don’t know, Kuwait is also a dictatorship. So is Saudi Arabia, and in many ways it more opressive and brutal than Iraq. But the Saudi’s grovel at your feet, so for now they are safe, even though most of the hijackers were Saudi.
Don’t even get me started on Afghanistan and Iran.
You claim a moral high ground, however, every military action the US takes in the middle east is based on control of resources and regional influence.
Your best argument is that we are jealous of the United States. If that makes you feel better, you can ignore the facts and believe what you want.
Some quotes relevant to our time…
“It is my conviction that killing under
the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.”
–Albert Einstein
“I came to America because of the great, great freedom which I heard existed in this country. I made a mistake in selecting America as a land of freedom, a mistake I cannot repair in the balance of my lifetime.”
–Albert Einstein, 1947
“The US must carry out some act somewhere in the world which shows its’ determination to continue to be a world power.”
– Henry Kissinger, post-Vietnam blues, as quoted in The Washington Post, April 1975
“It is the function of the CIA to keep the world unstable, and to propagandize and teach the American people to hate, so we will let the Establishment spend any amount of money on arms.”
– John Stockwell, former CIA official and author
“I believe that if we had and would keep our dirty, bloody, dollar soaked fingers out of the business of these [Third World] nations so full of depressed, exploited people, they will arrive at a solution of their own. And if unfortunately their revolution must be of the violent type because the “haves” refuse to share with the “have-nots” by any peaceful method, at least what they get will be their own, and not the American style, which they don’t want and above all don’t want crammed down their throats by Americans.”
–General David Sharp [Former United States Marine Commandant 1966]
“Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful. This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government.” – Henry Kissinger speaking at Evian, France, May 21, 1992 Bilderburgers meeting. Unbeknownst to Kissinger, his speech was taped by a Swiss delegate to the meeting.
" The enormous gap between what US leaders do in the world and what Americans think their leaders are doing is one of the great propaganda accomplishments of the dominant political mythology. "
– Michael Parenti, political scientist and author
“You make yourself ridiculous by thinking you can do anything. The world is divided in two. There are the communists on that side and on this side the free world. The Russians and the Americans, no one else. What are we. Americans. Behind me there is the government, behind the government is NATO, behind NATO is the U.S. You can’t fight us, we are Americans.”
– Athens [Greece] inspector Basil Lambrou, 1960s, speaking to prisoners before torturing them, during the US-supported Papadopoulos dictatorship
" If they do it it’s terrorism, if we do it, it’s fighting for freedom. "
– a U.S. Ambassador in Central America in the 1980s, asked to explain how such U.S. actions as the mining of Nicaragua’s harbors and bombing of airports
“There are too many things that embarrass Americans in that report. … they are asked to believe that their country has been evil. And nobody wants to believe that.”
– Congressman Otis Pike, 1975, on why a congressional report about US covert actions around the world should not be revealed to Americans - from the book Rogue State by William Blum, p9
“There is never any justification for acts of terror against innocent civilians.”
– Rabbi Michael Lerner, Tikkun magazine,
“The greatest crime since World War II has been U.S. foreign policy.”
–Ramsey Clark [Former U.S. Attorney General under President Lyndon Johnson]
“I will never apologize for the United States of America - I don’t care what the facts are.”
–President George Bush 1988 [Bush was demonstrating his patriotism by excusing an act of cold-blooded mass-murder by the U.S. Navy. On July 3, 1988 the U.S. Navy warship Vincennes shot down an Iranian commercial airliner. All 290 civilian people in the aircraft were killed. The plane was on a routine flight in a commercial corridor in Iranian airspace. The targeting of it by the U.S. Navy was blatantly illegal. That it was grossly immoral is also obvious. Except to a patriot.]
“We do not have any defence treaties with Kuwait, and there are no special defence or security commitments to Kuwait.”
– Margaret Tutweiller, US State Department spokeswoman, 24th July 1990, nine days before Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait
“We need a common enemy to unite us.”
– Condoleeza Rice, March 2000
" [Middle East oil is] a stupendous source of strategic power, and one of the greatest material prizes in world history."
– U.S. State Department, 1945
" …the CIA has overthrown functioning democracies in over 20 countries."
– John Stockwell, former CIA official and author
" How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don’t think."
– Adolph Hitler
“Conceit, arrogance and egotism are the essentials of patriotism… Patriotism assumes that our globe is divided into little spots, each one surrounded by an iron gate. Those who had the fortune of being born on some particular spot, consider themselves better, nobler, grander, more intelligent than the living beings inhabiting any other spot. It is, therefore, the duty of everyone living on that chosen spot to fight, kill, and die in the attempt to impose his superiority upon all others.”
– Emma Goldman
"I am strongly in favor of using poisoned gas against uncivilized tribes. The moral effect should be good…and it would spread a lively terror… "
– Winston Churchill commenting on the British use of poison gas against the Iraqis after World War I
And the best for last…
" The government of the United States does not, in its policies, express the decency of its people. "
– Jerry Fresia, author of Toward an American Revolution
They’ve released the photos.
Pretty greusome, but these guys deserved every bit of it.
Looks to me like they were beaten to death, not hit by a missile, but what do I know. Either way, atleast they are dead.
From today’s Hotline, citing McCain on Hardball last night:
MSNBC’s Matthews, to Sen. John McCain (R-AZ): “When asked about the killing of Saddam Hussein’s sons the other day, Howard Dean, the candidate for president said, quote: ‘It’s a victory for the Iraqi people but it doesn’t have any effect on whether we should or shouldn’t have had a war. I think, in general, the ends do not justify the means.’ Your thoughts, Senator?”
McCain replies: “I am astonished. A lot of people have compared me with Governor Dean. I could not disagree with him more to say that the ends doesn’t justify the means. The ends were the eradication of two psychotic murdering rapists, and the means were through legitimate use of the American military helped out by some excellent information that they gained. How in the world someone could in any way think this end was not justified by anything which was the removal of two odious characters, frankly, is beyond me. And I think, frankly, Mr. Dean does the nation a great disservice when he doesn’t recognize how wonderful an event this is and how important it is to the morale of the troops that these guys are gone. I mean, our troops serving in Iraq.”
McCain, on if Dean is catering to the left or “tone deaf”: “I don’t know which it is, but I think even the far left, people who did not support the war, are glad that these two thugs, these two, you know, adjectives, I don’t know enough adjectives that are not four letters, frankly, that describe these two guys. I think even the far left are glad that they’re gone. My god, this guy, you know the things he’s done. They’re well documented. Both of them.”
More McCain: “I hope that Mr. Dean will retract that statement and make it very clear that the world, America, and most importantly, the Iraqi people, are far better off with these two guys gone and their father should be next.”
In my humble opinion, members of the Ba’ath [arty shoul have been tries in absentia in the world criminal court. Once found guilty, an order to capture, dead or alive should have been issued. The United States does not have the right to do as it pleases around the world. The unilateral action taken by the United States on the premise that it was under imminent danger was a crime . The point is, the USA had no right to invade the sovereignty of another country.
Remember, it has been over 18 months since the war in Afghanistan began, and it is still being run by an unelected puppet of the US and the warlords.
For example, lets say I know that a guy down the block beats his wife and kids. I have also heard that he has several unlawful weapons in his house. And to top it all off, I know that this guy hates the bank, and keeps all his cash at home. So first of all, I flatten the tires on his acr, so that he cannot buy food. Being the asshole that he is, what little food does get to him, he eats himself, and rations severely for the wife and kids. The wife and kids who before were thinking of leaving, are now far too wek to stand up for themselves. The police raid his house several times and remove illegal weapons from his home. Every chance I get, I throw rocks at his windows and damage his property. Several years pass. I am running into some financial problems myself. One day I end up with a broken window to my house. We all know it wasnt the guy down the street, but, nevertheless, I accuse him of supplying the rock. In order to protect my home, I go into his house, kill him, look around for the weapons, and take his money. Then I figure it’s not a bad place. I lounge around his house as I please, eat much of the food the wife cooks for the children. I also believe the children need to be disciplined properly, so I make it my responsibility. The children often go days without food, but that is not really my responsibility…
Does that make sense? Sure doesn’t make sense to me. Frankly, what goes on in another’s house is none of my business. If what is happening is a crime, I should go to the police, and let them investigete. It should be the same in international law. The UN idid a damn good job of disarming Saddam Hussein. Eventually, his regime would have fallen. Unless they are propped up be a superpower, all tyrannical regimes fall.