T Nation

Saddam Executed Soon

From CNN.com
News agencies report that U.S. officials have informed Saddam Hussein’s lawyers that they have handed Hussein to Iraqi authorities, according to one of the lawyers.

How much will, if any, the media show is the question?

[quote]PGA wrote:
From CNN.com
News agencies report that U.S. officials have informed Saddam Hussein’s lawyers that they have handed Hussein to Iraqi authorities, according to one of the lawyers.

How much will, if any, the media show is the question?[/quote]

They should be allowed to witness it but not film it.

And now this just in…

Reuters reports Saddam Hussein still is in U.S. custody, a U.S. official in Baghdad said, denying reports that the U.S. military has handed the former president over to Iraqi authorites to be hanged.

[quote]PGA wrote:

How much will, if any, the media show is the question?[/quote]

None I hope. I have no desire to see any living person’s life taken.

news says it is going to be within the hour

[quote]n3wb wrote:
news says it is going to be within the hour[/quote]

Its done.

Ok I’m feeling something weird. I’ve seen ever sort of death video that there is. I’ve seen people decapitated etc. but something just feels wrong about it. The news was counting down and reporting every 30 seconds about this happening. This day and age we now have information at our finger tips and here people are counting down the seconds of a persons life.

Its not like the execution of Tookie as we knew the day it was going to happen. Saddam’s execution was on a whole 'nother level. Its not that I feel sorry for him or anything like that but it just just feels weird that the whole world was counting down the death of a man to the second.

[quote]PGA wrote:
n3wb wrote:
news says it is going to be within the hour

Its done.

Ok I’m feeling something weird. I’ve seen ever sort of death video that there is. I’ve seen people decapitated etc. but something just feels wrong about it. The news was counting down and reporting every 30 seconds about this happening. This day and age we now have information at our finger tips and here people are counting down the seconds of a persons life.

Its not like the execution of Tookie as we knew the day it was going to happen. Saddam’s execution was on a whole 'nother level. Its not that I feel sorry for him or anything like that but it just just feels weird that the whole world was counting down the death of a man to the second.[/quote]

I hear you. The guy was a monster…yet something just doesn’t sit right.

Anyway, I hope this doesn’t increase the violence too much.

[quote]PGA wrote:
Its done.

Ok I’m feeling something weird. I’ve seen ever sort of death video that there is. I’ve seen people decapitated etc. but something just feels wrong about it. The news was counting down and reporting every 30 seconds about this happening. This day and age we now have information at our finger tips and here people are counting down the seconds of a persons life.

Its not like the execution of Tookie as we knew the day it was going to happen. Saddam’s execution was on a whole 'nother level. Its not that I feel sorry for him or anything like that but it just just feels weird that the whole world was counting down the death of a man to the second.[/quote]

I agree, I’ve had the same feeling for the past couple of days. Perhaps it’s the idea that a former head of state can be officially executed. Dunno, just weird. I’m not saying that I disagree with it, though.

What good is his death going to do directly? Now that he’s dead…now what? It isn’t even that I don’t believe in the death penalty. I just don’t believe that it solves anything other than emotional satisfaction from victims. T

he man was already taken out of play. The ones we need to be worried about are the people who were killing lawyers and judges associated with this case. Human life means shit all of a sudden.

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
PGA wrote:
n3wb wrote:
news says it is going to be within the hour

Its done.

Ok I’m feeling something weird. I’ve seen ever sort of death video that there is. I’ve seen people decapitated etc. but something just feels wrong about it. The news was counting down and reporting every 30 seconds about this happening. This day and age we now have information at our finger tips and here people are counting down the seconds of a persons life.

Its not like the execution of Tookie as we knew the day it was going to happen. Saddam’s execution was on a whole 'nother level. Its not that I feel sorry for him or anything like that but it just just feels weird that the whole world was counting down the death of a man to the second.

I hear you. The guy was a monster…yet something just doesn’t sit right.

Anyway, I hope this doesn’t increase the violence too much.

[/quote]

No one should feel guilty or strange about having conflicting emotions about this. There is nothing more serious in this world than taking a life. All of the macabre ceremony leading up to a state execution should make you feel uncomfortable and I never got the cheering that goes on outside of a prison.

With that said, I believe wholeheartedly in the death penalty. We shouldn’t allow monsters to live among us. Its really that simple.

The difference between us and Saddam is that as much of a piece of shit as he was, we still had strange feelings about the whole thing. I can guarantee you that none of those emotions ever crossed his soul when he was gassing thousands or stuffing them in meat grinders.

Pookie’s crying, my lord.

Kumbaya!

[quote]Professor X wrote:
What good is his death going to do directly? Now that he’s dead…now what? It isn’t even that I don’t believe in the death penalty. I just don’t believe that it solves anything other than emotional satisfaction from victims. T

he man was already taken out of play. The ones we need to be worried about are the people who were killing lawyers and judges associated with this case. Human life means shit all of a sudden. [/quote]

As far as the death penalty not solving anything apart from giving satisfaction to the victim- I guess that can be said about any punishment.
What would simply sentencing saddam to a life imprisonment have done? In that case his victims wouldnt even have had the satisfaction they had at his execution. Of course , if the crime is minor and the guy repents for it -then yes, there are better things than a penalty. But we are not talking of any minor crimes here - and certainly we are not talking about someone who repented what he did.

Not to say that a victims satisfaction should be ultimate criterion for someones punishment. This is more about ‘Live and let live’.
Saddam, Bin Laden all belive in ‘Live as I tell you or die.’ Human life means shit to them- not us.
When dealing with terrorists and dictators you have to take a hard stance. Wish my countrys leaders had those kind of balls.

In regards to the jerks who killed some lawyers involved in the proceedings- I guess they will be bought to justice sooner or later.

He is no more.

I had mixed feelings about the death penalty, largley because I thought death was simply too easy a fate for this monster. But then, we weren’t dealing with our law - penalties in Muslim countries are very harsh.

That said, the ‘countdown’ aspect of it bothers me as well. It seems misplaced and grotesque.

[quote]Azrael wrote:
As far as the death penalty not solving anything apart from giving satisfaction to the victim- I guess that can be said about any punishment.

What would simply sentencing saddam to a life imprisonment have done? In that case his victims wouldnt even have had the satisfaction they had at his execution. Of course , if the crime is minor and the guy repents for it -then yes, there are better things than a penalty. But we are not talking of any minor crimes here - and certainly we are not talking about someone who repented what he did.

Not to say that a victims satisfaction should be ultimate criterion for someones punishment. This is more about ‘Live and let live’.
Saddam, Bin Laden all belive in ‘Live as I tell you or die.’ Human life means shit to them- not us.

When dealing with terrorists and dictators you have to take a hard stance. Wish my countrys leaders had those kind of balls.

In regards to the jerks who killed some lawyers involved in the proceedings- I guess they will be bought to justice sooner or later.[/quote]

In this instance, it simply seems barbaric. I am not ashamed to write that at all. What good comes directly because of it? A deterrent? these guys didn’t rise to power by themselves. At some point, enough people let them get there.

Someone mentioned Tookie Williams. The man killed people. Now that he is dead, is the world suddenly a better place? Maybe we could argue that we are spending less money feeding him and clothing him through the system, but then we could save even more by getting rid of some of these ridiculous drug laws that send people to jail for recreational drug use. His entire walk down the Green Mile was on national television for weeks getting huge ratings.

That doesn’t mean I don’t believe in the death penalty. I do believe in it when it comes to people who are threats to society and proven themselves useless. I doubt I would be typing if Saddam was quietly taken out without the media attention and countdown to death.

We have turned this shit into entertainment. Doesn’t that make us pretty fucking bad as well?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
In this instance, it simply seems barbaric. I am not ashamed to write that at all. What good comes directly because of it? A deterrent? these guys didn’t rise to power by themselves. At some point, enough people let them get there.

Someone mentioned Tookie Williams. The man killed people. Now that he is dead, is the world suddenly a better place? Maybe we could argue that we are spending less money feeding him and clothing him through the system, but then we could save even more by getting rid of some of these ridiculous drug laws that send people to jail for recreational drug use. His entire walk down the Green Mile was on national television for weeks getting huge ratings.

That doesn’t mean I don’t believe in the death penalty. I do believe in it when it comes to people who are threats to society and proven themselves useless. I doubt I would be typing if Saddam was quietly taken out without the media attention and countdown to death.

We have turned this shit into entertainment. Doesn’t that make us pretty fucking bad as well?[/quote]

I remember us having discussions about Tookie. I whole heartily believed he should be given the death penalty. I mean he killed someone and I believe in an “eye for an eye.” I guess the Saddam execution has made me look at it all differently now. But I don’t know why. I cant put my finger on it.

Maybe its because as you said he’s caputured and he’s done with the world. We would never let him go free again and he would never have the opportunity to harm another person again. Or it could be that the leader of a country was put to death with out second guessing as it seems.

Whats the difference with another country looking at Bush as invading and killing and torturing Iraq, like Saddam did, and capturing him and doing the same to him?

And that isn’t being anti-American. I guess its me saying “what the fuck?” I didn’t realize he was convicted of crimes that he did 25 years ago either.

I seriously don’t know what good it did killing him. Was it to show how tough we are,? I know it wasn’t “our court” but c’mon lets all look at it rationally, it was. Just imagine if our president went through the same shit this fast.

I just feel fucked up inside…Some may call me a pussy or whatever but it all just doesn’t seem right. Maybe this is one of those instances that change someone’s feelings or outlook in a heartbeat. I don’t know, but right now I know it all just doesn’t seem right.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/12/30/hussein/index.html

[quote]Professor X wrote:
In this instance, it simply seems barbaric. I am not ashamed to write that at all. What good comes directly because of it? A deterrent? these guys didn’t rise to power by themselves. At some point, enough people let them get there.
[/quote]

barbaric? hmm…
it might have been for some other guy. but not for him- just remember his chemical warfare stuff, warring with neighbouring countries , the countless people who ‘disappeared’ during his reigme.

Yup- he was elected as the president or something.
Reminds me of that funny pic thread on T-Nation itself.


Election ballot paper:
Option 1:saddam
Option 2:Plz kill me and torture my family.
*If u dont have hands , then smudge an option with your bloody stumps


Lol!
But seriously, elected or not-
he was always a threat to the US , european countries - and not to mention India.

You know- a lot of conspirancy theorists are bitching that he was tried in a mock trial - and executed cause Bush or the US government said so. Well- if this is true- I’m happy.

And no- his death really wont serve as a deterrent. We are talking about crazies who believe hurting innocent people will give them hot babes in the afterlife. Nothing will deter them. Its a simple affair of u or me.
And I’m not being a smart ass by saying that. Its those guys who wont live in peace but want the entire world to believe in what they believe in.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Someone mentioned Tookie Williams. The man killed people. Now that he is dead, is the world suddenly a better place? Maybe we could argue that we are spending less money feeding him and clothing him through the system, but then we could save even more by getting rid of some of these ridiculous drug laws that send people to jail for recreational drug use. His entire walk down the Green Mile was on national television for weeks getting huge ratings.

[/quote]

I live in India- I really dont know who Tookie Williams is. I dont have time to read the entire WIki page but he seems to be some kindda gangstar.

Assuming he hurt a lot of people and was not showing any signs of repentence I would say yes- killing him was the logical thing to do.

In regards to killing people for recreational drug use- no. Thats not logical cause although they are hurting themselves -they are doing it on their money and time. They are not hurting anyone else. But if they do hurt/rob someone to get their juice oe any other drug then they are to be punished.

But not to be shot dead of course. If they are repenting, remorseful etc they they deserve a second chance.
The punishment should match the intensity of the crime.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

That doesn’t mean I don’t believe in the death penalty. I do believe in it when it comes to people who are threats to society and proven themselves useless.
[/quote]

Ahaa! so u really shouldnt have a problem with Saddams death. He was a menace.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I doubt I would be typing if Saddam was quietly taken out without the media attention and countdown to death.

We have turned this shit into entertainment. Doesn’t that make us pretty fucking bad as well?[/quote]

I really dont know how the US TV cannels covered it. I saw it on a national channel just an hour or so after he was hanged.
And man! Am I happy or what that 2006 is ending on such a great note!

About the countdown and media attention- … as I said I dont know abut American TV guys… but well- look at the guy involved. This was bound to generate world wide attention. This is history in the making. If such an event doesnt garner world wide attention , what will?

Tell me truthfully- u do say that in a way u r not unhappy that he is hanged.
But u hated the media attention and all… so how according to you this should have been dealt with?
Life time imprisonment? or a silent hidden execution? etc etc just want to know ur views.

The world is a better place without saddam.

Those of you having difficulty with the death penalty haven’t had a family member put through a wood shredder. Imagine your most prized family member being put through the wood shredder. Imagine having to watch a video of that.

I guarantee, your squeamishness would be erased in a hurry.

I feel sorry for the guys like fighting irish who stated that Iraq would be a better place now with saddam.

Must be a sad day for him,

JeffR

[quote]PGA wrote:

Maybe its because as you said he’s caputured and he’s done with the world. We would never let him go free again and he would never have the opportunity to harm another person again. Or it could be that the leader of a country was put to death with out second guessing as it seems.
[/quote]

Done with the world? He was unrepentant till his last breath.
“We would never let him go free again” But you see- he was not in an American max security prison but in Iraq. American soldiers are still being killed there. This might sound far fetched- but what if he was whisked free and he came back to power? What then? He had to go.
The only good terrorist/dictator/terrorism funder is a dead one.

[quote]PGA wrote:
Whats the difference with another country looking at Bush as invading and killing and torturing Iraq, like Saddam did, and capturing him and doing the same to him?
[/quote]

The difference is me killing a person cause he doesnt do as I say versus me killing someone in self defence cause he was forcing me live as he said.

Of course, you could say that Saddam hadnt attacked the USA. But the problem is with him and his kind - the terrosists, terrorist funders etc- they want to transform the whole world to suit their twisted ideology.

The USA wont be invading India, Nepal, Australia anytime soon. Why? Cause they are not a dictatorships. Nor do their national ideologies say that they are the best and everyone else is game.

Saddam was torturing his people to stay in power…
I just though of ths- not that I read it anywhere. Was he also funding any terrorists?

The best policy would be to live and let live. If even one guy does not believe in it then he is a danger to everyone else.

[quote]PGA wrote:
And that isn’t being anti-American. I guess its me saying “what the fuck?” I didn’t realize he was convicted of crimes that he did 25 years ago either.
[/quote]

Actually they were going to try him for all his crimes. Its just that when the courts started- the very 1st case was enough to send him to the gallows.

[quote]PGA wrote:
I seriously don’t know what good it did killing him. Was it to show how tough we are,? I know it wasn’t “our court” but c’mon lets all look at it rationally, it was. Just imagine if our president went through the same shit this fast.

.[/quote]

Well- if not the gallows then what was to be done with him?
About American Presidents- I’m not raelly up to par with American politics - but didnt the Clinton-Lewiski case go to court?

1 last thing:
U dont seem to be happy with the Iraq war.
I supported the war. What i did not like was things like: saying God asked him to do it, his second -guessing about the nature of the war.
I remember seeing American soldiers on T.V. A lot of them really seemed confused. Bush should have gone out and made matters clear to everyone- that he wanted to war with iraq cause of their policies etc etc…he should have taken a stricter stance. Maybe rather than sending in human troops he could’ve used air bombing etc.

You might want to check out these links:

What’ll happen if
In India- the leaders are NOT taking a strong stance against Pakistan, the LTTE and the like. They are worried about human rights and diplomacy- sucks.

When an american dies cause of some terrorist act it’ll make the headlines. You should be proud of it. In India , people getting killed, minor bombings are an almost weekly if not daily affair- esp in Kashmir, South etc. Do you know that when Pakistan and China attacked India during different occasions they annexed parts of the country.

And its been around 4-5 decades. The parts are still under Pak and China reigme. But obviously we being Indians belive in Mahatma Gandhis Satyagrah approach, human rights and the bullshit. Look wheres its taking us.
A hard course of action is what is needed…

Well, thank gosh that’s over!

I’m sure Shia and Sunni will be embracing one another now and we shoulod expect the troops home by New Year’s!

Mission accomplished.