T Nation

S & C for a 800/400m Hurdler


#1

I am a 400 hurdler who is running 800 for indoor season. I am at a school where we dont have a strength and conditioning coach so we can do what we think is best for us because our coaches arent strength coaches. I write my own program based on a little research and based on what I feel I need.

I want to improve my endurance,and keep my improving my strength, yet I dont not want much upper body bulk,as I am trying to bulk down because of my event. So I decided to post my lifting for the past two weeks in hope that you guys can assist me.

I can handle volume in the weightroom a lot better than the athletes on my team so I lift a little harder than most of them. I am not a strength and conditioning coach,so please dont bite into me really bad. I am open to ALL criticism and suggestions.Thank you.

Week One

Sept 17th
Hang Snatch 5x10
Incline Bench Press 10x5
Good Morning 8x5
Chin Up 10x3

Sept 18th
Hang Clean 5x10
Deep Squat 12x4
Dips 1OX4
Romanian Deadlift 6x5

Sept 20th
Power Clean 6x5
DB Bench Press 10x4
Romanian Deadlift 6x5
Chin Up 10x4

Sept 21th
Power Snatch 6x5
Deadlift 6x5
Leg Raises for ABS 10x4
Pull ups 10x4

End of First Week

Sept 24th
Hang Snatch 5x9
Incline DB Bench Press 10x5
Romanian Deadlift 6x5
Arm Curl 10x3

Sept 25th
Hang Clean 5x9
Deep Squat 12x4
Shoulder Press 10x3

Sept 27th
Power Clean 6x5
DB Bench Press 10x5
Good Morning 8x5 supersetted with Chin Up 10x4

Sept 28th
Power Snatch 6x5
Deadlift 6x5
Front Squat 8x4
Dips 10x4

End of second week.

Thank you.


#2

You might be tricking yourself with your workouts. I guess you're already aware that you pretty effectively cover all your major muscle groups each workout. Even if you don't feel sore and tired after doing full-body workouts day after day, your performance on each subsequent workout is probably hindered.

You might not notice any losses in strength by doing this is everything is going your way, but you certainly won't get as strong as quickly if you were doing these same workouts less frequently.

I guess you're not going to stop after one month. You probably aren't planning to.

If your goal is getting stronger and faster, you'll need less volume and heavier weights (unless all your sets are pyramiding up to one working set. If that's the case I guess I see what you're doing)

I think you should keep your workouts the same but lift every other day or only 3 days a week. As an 800 runner your greatest improvements aren't going to come from the weight room but from the conditioning you'll get from your practices.

If you were training for the triple jump or the 100 dash your best physical results would probably be coming from the gym and the chief purpose of your practices would be training your body to take the horsepower it has and use it to sprint.

But since the 800 is much more intensive on efficiency, endurance, and a heightened pain threshold that can only come from running longer distances you need to be economic about where you put your physical efforts in your training. I'm not saying don't lift. Just realize adding 10 pounds to your power clean won't help you as much in the 800 as busting your balls on some interval training will.

You might want to consider a training split if you really want to work out every day or as many days as possible.

Day 1: Olympic Lifts/Front Squats
Day 2: Weighted Dips/Bench Press/

Rest Day

Day 3: Back Squats or Deadlifts
Day 4: Chins/Rows/Curls

Rest Day

On Olympic Lifts you might want to add in some overhead jerks or push presses. They're great for explosive power and they don't demand you to pull yourself under a barbell like snatches and cleans do.


#3

You have selected great exercises. The majority of your exercises are multi-joint efforts that are widely accepted as exercises that will improve athleticism.

The way you structure the rest of your program variables (training fequency, order of exercise within the session, order of exercise within a week, and progression of exercises over months, sets and reps (volume), intensity (load), lifting tempo, and rest periods), depends on answers to several questions.

What is your training age? (How much lifting experience do you have?)

What is your current level of fitness?

How far out are you from your season and when is your most important event? (indoor/outdoor championships, championship qualifying meets)

What are the demands of your sport? {(maximal strength, a variant of power (low or high load speed strength), metabolic fitness (the ability to tolerate lactic acid and H+ ion buildup)}.

Of the qualities you list as demands of your sport in general, what are YOUR specific weaknesses?

Answering these types of questions lead to effective program design for individual athletes. Armed with this type of information, the people on this site can give you more specific advice.

Of note, one quick alteration I think you should make is in the set and rep scheme for your Olympic lift variants. Did you present your program variables as 5 x 10 meaning (5 sets of 10 repetitions each set).

In general, you don't perform Olympic lift variants past 5 repetitions if the goal of performing them is the development of power as fatigue will significantly reduce the power output past 5-6 reps. There is an outstanding book on program design for athletes "The Coach's Strength Training Playbook" by Joe Kenn the strength coach at Arizona State University.

This book is great fron to back, although it may be a bit advanced if you do not have a background in exercise science. But the book does contain Prilepen's set/rep chart which was designed to program Olympic lifting volume for improved lifting performance (Power production). This chart is also discussed extensively on:

The Elite Fitness Website: http://www.elitefts.com/

and The Westside Barbell Site:
www.westside-barbell.com/


#4

I second the previous responses. You've got some really good movements in your sessions, and I see that you say you can handle higher volume, but you may be doing too high frequency for the volume that you're doing. You'll probably be ok for another two weeks, but if you continue beyond that I can see you overtraining (assuming that you're lifting hard).

I'd say that for 800m, this is an unusual amount of weight training. Speed and strength are very important, but I'm guessing you already have some speed from the 400mh? In that case, I'd really focus on the interval work, and use hill running as well. How are you fitting the lifting in with your track regime?
What sort of performances are you looking at for 400, 800 and 1500?


#5

My first meet is not until January 19th.

I have been lifting weights seriously since 2005.

The 5x10 is 5 reps and 10 sets. I found it on a workout on dragon door about muscle endurance.

I know that I am focusing on the 800 indoor but I am still am keeping in mind that I am a sprinter because the 400h and the 800 are still a sprinter.

I think my biggest weakness is my lactid acid tolerance but I am addressing that with my interval work.

I do my lifting pretty much immediately after practice so, I try to take that into account. I also try to make friday my toughest day which is why I deadlift heavy on a that day.

I would like to keep my 4 days of lifting. I feel a little bit more comfortable that way,and I feel I get the most out of my workouts that way.

Am trying to bulk down as well,I think I will drop the bench from two days a week to just one day.
I am trying to go 47.9 for 400m this year,with is a 2 tenth drop from my p.r. I have never run the 800 but I would like to run 1:54 this indoor.

This is what I have for monday and tuesday.
Hang Snatch 5x5
Shoulder Press 6x4
Step Up 8x4
Pull Up 10x5

Hang Clean 5x5
Back Squat 10x4
Dips 10x4
Good Morning 8x5

I am going to drop the reps considerbly after this week because it was the first month of our gpp. I had a pretty considerable amount of volume this summer for the off season and I got so use to doing it,I havent stopped. I am using high reps for the squat because I had tendinitus so I could squat for a month and half and I want to bring back that muscle memory.

I want to focus on maintaining and building my strength and explosiveness because I know this interval work and the trails runs I do take a little bit out of it me.

Look forward to the comments and keep them coming!!


#6

damn dude, you're flying with a 48.1 what school do you run for?

i think both distances (400 and 800) are sprints and should be trained for using explosive oly lifts and heavy PL type lifts to increase your speeed (like you're doing). I'm assuming you are going 100% of your sprint for some if not all of the 400m, therefore power will be especially important.

the 800 will obviously demand more lactic acid tolerance so you might want to read up on now to develop that.. sorry i'm not well versed in this

as far as workout frequency, if you are running every day of the week, 4 workouts would be very demanding, i would be very carefull to watch for signs of overtraining, stress, decrease in strength and increased recovery time etc.

keep us posted, and are you taking any suplements?


#7

Good luck but depending on your supplementation that sounds a little crazy unless the weight you use is real light.
10 sets of 5 hard reps? and your trying to cut.

I think fighting Irish said it your conditioning will come from your running. I would think you really want to improve your max strength in the weight room, more than your muscular endurance.