T Nation

S-23 SARM, Thoughts?

So I’ve done some research on this and there is not a lot of information out there.
It seems to get a bad rap due to its side effects, one of them being natural T production shut down as well as hair loss if you have a history of it.

What really catches my eye about it is the ability to offset muscle loss in a caloric deficit… seemsnlike the perfect thing to use for a cut.

From what I’ve read the half life is roughly 10-12 hours, and it seems best to not consume more than 20mg a day, with the occasional person going to 30+.

It does seem to be hepatotoxic, but a short run with some liver support supps used for normal oral cycles should be ok I assume?

I have some of this… and being recently divorced I’d love to shed some fat slightly quicker than normal for summer and would love some feed back.

I am also on TRT so shut down isnof no concern, I also have way too much hair on my head and have zero history of male pattern baldness.

Literally every steroid will do this, it’s just a matter of degrees. If you’re on trt and want to cut while also minimizing the damage you do to your body then anavar is your winner and it’s not particularly close.

Worth noting that adding just a little more test to your weekly protocol would likely be enough to spare the majority of muscle during a reasonable calorie deficit.

I haven’t read into anavar. I will give that a look.

I also did not know that, I knew about the benefits of higher levels on test, but I did not know one of the benefits was keeping muscle while at a caloric deficit.
I figure the average cut is roughly 3-500 calories a day for a normal person. Would keeping higher levels of T let me drop more than 2-4 pounds a week? Or any steroid for that matter? I’m also probably 30% body fat if that helps, but I have zero issues with estrogen, if anything o could probably use a little more.

Hard to say what you can lose in terms of pounds and what you can keep in terms of muscle. Everyone is a little different and how they diet and train can cause some wild variations in results.

For example, I ran epistane for four weeks at a fairly low dose (30mg/d) and cut calories by 300-500, depending on how miserable I was being hungry that particular day. Bf scan results showed is dropped just a bit more than 1%, but my weight stayed the same. I’m like three weeks past that experiment and my weight still hasn’t changed on my current maintenance calories. Did the epistane help? Or was it just my trt dose and that little extra cardio that I was able to add? I genuinely don’t know.

Interesting. Seems the safer thing to do is bump the test.
I read a little about anavar and it seems fairly simple with mild sides. One thing I’m worried about is sex drive or ED issues. I already don’t have the greatest sex drive.

You need to tell @iron_yuppie HOW LONG you have been lifting.

Not long enough to play with drugs by the opinion of the majority of people on here. And I’m sure they are right. Not asking for permission, asking for information.

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Trt changes the calculation entirely. Anyone lifting and dieting for 5+ years has the base necessary for at least an exploration of steroids. But once you’re on trt? Totally changes the risk/reward ratio. At that point you have totally different things to consider.

Would you mind explaining just a touch more, I’m having trouble following.

You have no risk of shutdown. When a guy comes on here and says he wants to run a cycle at age 20 the obvious issue is what happens if he never recovers. But you don’t have recovery to worry about. You’re already beyond that danger zone. For you the calculation is now about what do you need vs what can you take?

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I probably don’t need anything, but I want it. I’d just like to cheat a little and cut weight faster while preserving muscle mass/strength.

I understand it’s a game of trade offs and calculated risks.

I know it’s only marginally related to the subject at hand but what does your training regime look like now? Any cardio? Just curious.

No cardio. For the record I am still bulking and am just getting ready to dial it back.

You should do cardio anyway. It’s just good for everything. Mood, sex, overall health.

I agree. I was riding mountain bikes 2-3 times a week for 10-20 miles each ride, now not so much. I know I should, it’s just one of those things that sucks.

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Agreed, especially during the colder months when it’s hard to get outside. I’m trying to include some more LISS cardio (just treadmill walking) at the end of each training session with longer sessions on my off days. Once the weather turns nicer I may move it outside for some sled work as a form of active recovery.

I have a spin bike, rowing machine, and elliptical so I have no excuses :joy:

A sled sounds awesome though.

So get on it man! You don’t need a SARM…you just keep a kick in the pants!

Oh I can lose weight, last time I lost weight too fast. Bulking is hard for me, starving myself is easy.

Obviously I’m gonna try and not starve myself and to just cut minimally, I’d still like to run something so I could be in a more aggressive deficit.

Seriously, guys. As a pharmacy student I don’t get this SARMs hype. Most of those compounds mechanisms of action aren’t even known, not to mention what about long-term therapy side effects. Anabolic properties are usually very weak. Two of them (maybe more, I don’t follow the topic) are just in 1st and 2nd phase of clinical trails. We have plenty of good AAS around, why to waste your time (and health) for fashion that has just arrived? Come on.

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