T Nation

Russian Kettlebell Challenge


#1

Hi,

Has anyone bought Pavel's Russian kettlebell Challenge DVD. I got it the other day and I have to say it is the biggest load of crap I have ever seen.

First of all, he gives next to no insight into how to develop a KB training program. I assume the DVD is for beginners (which I am in KB training) and I am absolutely none the wiser.

Second: His jerk is exactly the same as his Push press. Yet he calls them different exercises but all the coaching points are the same and the movement is identical.

I saw this DVD as a complete waste of money and would definetly advise all people not to buy it.

I feel like an absolute dickhead for buying it and I feel ripped off by another marketing gimmick.

Anyone else got views on Pavel?


#2

I got it a while back. Only because my Sporting Dept has a huge budget. There are certain publications that I believe are a must for every coach and "The Kettlebell Challenge" is a long way from a must.

In regards to your gimmick comment. Some people swear by them, but they are usually the PT's or Coaches who are trying to sell you something. I have not met anyone who rates them over an olympic bar.

We had a KB instructor come in and show our staff how to use them and that was a good afternoon. He was much better than any of Pavel's DVD's could be.

Getting back to the original reason for the post. Pavel seems to have just put that DVD out with little guidance. It is poor and I would give it about a 3/10.


#3

what do you really think?

why is setting up a kb program any different than setting up any other program? go heavy sometimes, go fast sometimes, go a lot sometimes, push/pull/squat

i don't know sh!t about pavel, but i know a lot of respectable people that have nothing but great things to say about him

perhaps you are just p!ssed off because you bought a video instructing to do all of the lifts you already do, just with kettlebells?

i, btw, love kettlebells ... they are a great tool

kb jogging - the wave of the future


#4

I've got several of his books which arent to bad. KB are not really gimmick, they've been around for yonks. I percieve kettlebells to be much better then dumbells, alot more dynamic movements you can do with kettbells.


#5

Mate. You are a dickhead.

Don't lament your purchase. Just put it with your BOSU, ab roller and EAS supplements.

At least with EAS supplements you can see that Bill Phillips had a pretty decent physique. Pavel looks gaunt. He's clearly strong but has no physique worth writing home about.

Kettlebells are just for knobhead trainers who can't get respect with a barbell and traditional (proven) methods.

You get all those idiot PT's in commercial gyms swinging KB's around and making a scene. That it all it is good for. Making a scene. And there is always a sucker.

Which part of the blurb got you?
"Go ape - on your enemies with gorilla shoulders and tree swinging traps."

"Get really, really nasty?with a commando?s wiry strength, the explosive agility of a tiger and the stamina of a world-class ironman"

"Watch in amazement as high-rep kettlebells let you hack the fat off your meat?without the dishonor of aerobics and dieting" (Who does aerobics these days? has he mistaken it for cardio?)

"Effortlessly absorb ballistic shocks?and laugh as you shrug off the hardest hits your opponent can muster" (Doesn't this sound like a comic book blurb or something?)

Pavel: You have a great sense of humour and marketing nouse to rival the biggest punk of them all; Paul Chek.


#6

I agree that there are some good exercises. I haven't tried jogging, but a rack walk with the KB's is excellent. Tough physically and mentally.

It can be done with DB's too though!


#7

It is different because many of the lifts are full body. His only instruction was do 1 hour one day and 20 minutes the next. Don't do the same amount every day.

Genius. I can't see why he couldn't have put in a couple of sample programs.

And I am pissed that I bought a video with only instructions on how to do the exercises. I would like to know how to structure them into a program.


#8

I wanted to go ape and had dishonored my family by doing aerobics.


#9

He probably thought out the books. The DVD seemed like it was rushed.

And 90 degree leg presses have been around for yonks. Doesn't mean they are any good.


#10

Way harsh man. Way harsh.

Nobody is a bigger dickhead than Paul Chek.


#11

Maybe you should have bought the book instead of the DVD. The book has sample programs and gives more detailed explanations regarding the exercises and their technique. I do not believe Pavel or his products are a gimmick. I just recently received my 106# KB, in addition to the others I own, and it beats using dumbells anyday of the week. By the way, his methods do work as I was able to increase my deadlift 1 RM from 500 raw to 555 raw in a matter of about 8 weeks. I've been training since I was 18 (34 now) so I'm pretty sure I've seen a gimmick or three in that time frame.

Just like anything else though, KBs are a tool and you have to know how to use it to get the maximum benefit


#12

I gotta disagree with the guys who try and shame kettlebells. Are they all Pavel claims, no. They do have their place in training. That said, the DVD sucks. I would suggest going with the H2H or one of Mahler's DVDs. I even tried going onto the Dragondoor website and found little in the way of programs. The KB is different than a barbells. Thats probably why some of you don't like it, you can't see the difference.

The foundation of a good KB workout is the swing. Once you get it down so you can swing ten times with each hand, alternating back and forth about every ten reps or mre for fiftyish reps per arm, try using the snatch.

Once you get that down, try learning to juggle. I know some of you will laugh your ass off at juggling for a workout. I all I can say is give it a shot. That's where the H2H stuff comes in. That will help your explosivnes and conditioning more than anything above.

At some point you will need to get another one. Some people will get one of the same weight, that is were Pavel will make you poor. For now, going up to weights (8K). Then keep juggling you light bell and start over with your swings and jerks with the heavy bell.

If you follow that progression, I doubt you will need more than three bells in your first year, although that could vary depending on where you start.

I know Pavel and others try to sell you the bells based on strength training. I wouldn't suggest going with that approach, it requires a lot of KBs and seems like you would be better off with a DB or BB ot just a plain old gym membership.


#13

The dvd is supposed to be a complementary to the book. It says that in the product description on the website. He did not describe any programs in much detail because that is covered in more depth in the book. Don't blame Pavel because you did not look into what you were getting. If you had any questions all you had to do was post here or on their website.

I'll also echo the statments of KB's being a great tool that for some stupid reason gets a bad rap. Before anyone else says anything stupid like KB's are for idiot trainers that lost their bosu balls, go to elitefts and read about how PL'ers have used them to great success.

To throw out my own opinion, I thought Mahler's KB DVD was worse than Pavel's. If you have any real knowledge about KB's you probably dont learn much. I think everyone here just has a huge anti-pavel bias for some reason and everyone wants to favor Mahler as he has been a contributing author.

That being said, you can just use the infinite power of google and wind up with a good enough idea of how all the KB excercises work.


#14

hmm, went back and looked up the product desription on Dragondoor. I see that it mentions that there is also a book, but I don't see anywhere that the DVD is an add on to the book. Either way, the DVD is still crap.
I used google when I first got my KBs, didn't help much. You are better off finding a person.
AS for antiPavel sentiment. He's brought that on himself. Even fans of his products see the issues. I'm personally middle of the road but have a friend who love pavels products. Even he sees Pavels business tradegy as kinda prickish.


#15

It seems the anti KB people on this post are the one's who haven't used them in their training yet. I am a competitive PL'er w/ a modest Total of 1905. I probably use KB's in every workout in some form or another. The book and dvd are intended to go hand in hand. KB's at no time will probably ever build size but they WILL build stamina and power. They work in a weird fucked up way that I can't explain other than your smoked after using them. I've got 5 KB's and will probably buy more as I get stronger, and not from PAvel or dragondoor. Your correct in thinking it's a money thing because they charge the shit out of you. You can go to your local library and request the books and dvd's for KB's and they should get them for you for free.


#16

My opinion is that kbells are great in that they are different than barbells/Db's, not necessarily better. if you have never used them, find someone who actually know how and give it a try. i'm surprised so many people do not like them, especially after Dave tate, wendler, donnie t, and many others have said they use them. as for pavel's video's, i was not impressed, i think your much better off finding when someone like Mahler, Martone, etc is doing something near you. you will learn way more.


#17

I think kettlebells are a great tool to add to your training, not base it around it. I like kbells for high rep snatches for warmups and to pratice hip snap. I use the clean and snatch for cardio or just to tax the whole body with one exercise during my off week.

On a side note, pm me if you are interested in the RKC ebook, I just might be able to hook you up.


#18

Is there any reason you can't do the hi-rep snatches on Pav's video with a dumbell?.


#19

no


#20

No reason at all. Its a great excercise. Think of it as a difference similar to DB bench to BB bench. Both are the same, but different. DB's are much more economical too.

In fact, if you want to work up to really heavy poundages (100+), you will need to use them because the bell gets too big and puts stress on the elbow.

Another option for swings and pressing is KB handles from ironmind. KB excercies are very useful and have their own special benefits, but I wouldnt spend the money unless I was "into" it. Just like I could spend a lot of money on a nice oly set, but I really dont do many oly lifts.