T Nation

Russia Threatens Poland

What the fuck has happened to these people in the last year? A NUCLEAR attack?

Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles
By JIM HEINTZ �?? 20 hours ago

MOSCOW (AP) �?? Russia warned Poland on Friday that it is exposing itself to attack �?? even a nuclear one �?? by accepting a U.S. missile interceptor base on its soil, delivering Moscow’s strongest language yet against the plan.

American and Polish officials stuck firmly by their deal, signed Thursday, for Poland to host a system that Washington says is meant to block missile attacks by rogue nations like Iran.

Moscow is convinced the base is aimed at Russia’s missile force, however, and the deal comes as relations already are strained over the fighting between Russia and U.S.-allied Georgia over the separatist Georgian region of South Ossetia.

“Poland, by deploying (the system) is exposing itself to a strike �?? 100 percent,” Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, the deputy chief of staff of Russia’s armed forces, was quoted by the Interfax news agency as saying.

He noted Russia’s military doctrine sanctions the use of nuclear weapons “against the allies of countries having nuclear weapons if they in some way help them.” Nogovitsyn said that would include elements of any strategic deterrence system, according to Interfax.

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said the deal “absolutely clearly demonstrates what we had said earlier �?? the deployment has the Russian Federation as its target.”

However, speaking at news conference with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Medvedev appeared to take a softer position than Nogovitsyn’s on the Polish base, saying that “it is sad news for all who live on this densely populated continent, but it is not dramatic.”

U.S. officials defended the missile defense deal and said the timing was not meant to antagonize Russian leaders amid the conflict in Georgia.

“Poland is an independent country. And it’s an ally of the United States. And it’s a democratic country, to whose security the United States is committed” through NATO, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said during a visit to Georgia’s capital, Tbilisi.

“Russia should welcome having democracies on its border, not threaten them,” she said.

Polish Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski said Poland was willing to let Russia inspect the future missile base to give Moscow “tangible proof” that it is not directed against Russia’s arsenal, the Polish news agency PAP reported.

At a news conference earlier in the day, Nogovitsyn reiterated Russia’s frequently stated warning that placing missile interceptors in Poland and a linked radar post in the Czech Republic would bring an unspecified military response. But the general’s subsequent reported statement substantially stepped up the war of words.

Russian troops went deep into Georgia in the fighting, raising wide concerns that Russia could be seeking to occupy parts of a small, pro-U.S. neighbor that has vigorously lobbied to join NATO, or perhaps force the Georgian government to collapse.

“I think the Russian behavior over the last several days is generally concerning not only to the United States but to all of our European allies,” Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said when asked about Russian threats against Poland.

He also suggested that earlier U.S. offers for broad cooperation with Moscow on the missile defense program might be reevaluated considering the latest developments.

The missile deal, struck Thursday after more than 18 months of talks, must still be approved by Poland’s parliament and signed by Rice during a future visit to Warsaw, possibly next week.

Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said the United States agreed to help augment Poland’s defenses with Patriot missiles in exchange for placing 10 missile defense interceptors in the eastern European country.

He said the deal also includes a “mutual commitment” between the two nations to come to each other’s assistance “in case of trouble.” That clause appeared to be a direct reference to Russia, whose resurgent muscle worries Polish leaders.

“Simply, the existence of this installation increases Poland’s security,” Polish President Lech Kaczynski said.

Making a visit to Russia, German Chancellor Angela Merkel suggested Russia be included in the missile defense system.

“From my point of view, this deal is not directed against Russia,” she said in Sochi at a joint news conference with Medvedev. “We will continue to advocate that talks be continued on how we can convince Russia of this and also … include it,” she added.

Associated Press writers Vanessa Gera in Warsaw, Poland, Matthew Lee traveling with Rice and Lolita C. Baldor in Washington contributed to this report.

Russia is completely out of line here. Opposing is one thing, threatening to nuke is another. It’s clearly empty rhetoric though.

Still, the US should shut its yap and let countries with credibility denounce Russia here. The US threatens military action all the time and all over the globe (unlike Russia that typically sticks to its surroundings) and actually follows through on some of those threats.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Russia is completely out of line here. Opposing is one thing, threatening to nuke is another. It’s clearly empty rhetoric though.

Still, the US should shut its yap and let countries with credibility denounce Russia here. The US threatens military action all the time and all over the globe (unlike Russia that typically sticks to its surroundings) and actually follows through on some of those threats.[/quote]

Shut it’s yap? Are you fuckin delirious? They just threatened to nuke a NATO member.

The US has credibility because we are the only ones that could stand up to Russia should we have to.

I hope they nuke Sweden first.

We could try backing off and giving them some room. Drop the anti-missle stuff, at least for a good while. What’s it solve, if it only leads to a war?

Hey the Ruskies did offer to place the anti-missile shield on their land between the Black and Caspian Seas from Iran.

Maybe we should have taken them up on the deal.

We could have built it, but would you trust them to man it?

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
lixy wrote:
Russia is completely out of line here. Opposing is one thing, threatening to nuke is another. It’s clearly empty rhetoric though.

Still, the US should shut its yap and let countries with credibility denounce Russia here. The US threatens military action all the time and all over the globe (unlike Russia that typically sticks to its surroundings) and actually follows through on some of those threats.

Shut it’s yap? Are you fuckin delirious? They just threatened to nuke a NATO member.

The US has credibility because we are the only ones that could stand up to Russia should we have to.

I hope they nuke Sweden first.[/quote]

In case you haven’t noticed, Russia’s never nuked anybody. The US, on the hand…

Look, we all know this is geopolitical posturing. The US wanted to make a point to Moscow, and Russia is reacting. Don’t forget that the US was the one to unilaterally withdraw from the ABMT. At the end of the day, we all know those things would merely slow down an aggressor (or used to minimize retaliation against allies in case the US decides to strike Russia first?). We also all know Russia isn’t actually going to nuke Poland. They’re just blowing hot air to reassert the illusion of control over its sphere of influence. At this point, there’s nothing more they can do.

What’s funny though, is that at this kind of game, there are more losers than winners. Washington had to bribe (look up the figures in that incentive package) Warsaw for the privilege of putting an overhyped defense system on the ground. The US taxpayer footing the astronomical bill as usual. A close majority of Polish people oppose the idea anyway, but hey, their representatives know better than the unwashed masses, don’t they? The Russian people pay to militarize their country, as they (legitimately) see America crowding them in their backyard. They also tolerate more abuse from the government for “national security”. Poland antagonizes a very powerful next-door neighbor and sees its risk increase.

On the winners side, we have Iran, the official reason for building the system. It escapes from the spotlight for a while and any chance of Russia lining up with the US on Tehran’s nuclear issue is jeopardized. Of course, all the while, the MIC makes money hand over fist.

[quote]lixy wrote:
(unlike Russia that typically sticks to its surroundings) [/quote]

Yeah, Cuba is sure close to Russia’s surroundings…

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/07/22/ST2008072200062.html

Get a map will ya?

The Evil Empire is back. Not unexpected when the KGB is running the show.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Russia is completely out of line here. Opposing is one thing, threatening to nuke is another. It’s clearly empty rhetoric though.

Still, the US should shut its yap and let countries with credibility denounce Russia here. The US threatens military action all the time and all over the globe (unlike Russia that typically sticks to its surroundings) and actually follows through on some of those threats.[/quote]

It took you 4 sentences to turn this back to the U.S. being bad.

Your douchiness is as strong as ever.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[quote]NateOrade wrote:
lixy wrote:
Russia is completely out of line here. Opposing is one thing, threatening to nuke is another. It’s clearly empty rhetoric though.

Still, the US should shut its yap and let countries with credibility denounce Russia here. The US threatens military action all the time and all over the globe (unlike Russia that typically sticks to its surroundings) and actually follows through on some of those threats.

It took you 4 sentences to turn this back to the U.S. being bad.

Your douchiness is as strong as ever.[/quote]

You do realize this is about the missiles the US wants to put in Poland, right?

[quote]lixy wrote:
NateOrade wrote:
lixy wrote:
Russia is completely out of line here. Opposing is one thing, threatening to nuke is another. It’s clearly empty rhetoric though.

Still, the US should shut its yap and let countries with credibility denounce Russia here. The US threatens military action all the time and all over the globe (unlike Russia that typically sticks to its surroundings) and actually follows through on some of those threats.

It took you 4 sentences to turn this back to the U.S. being bad.

Your douchiness is as strong as ever.

You do realize this is about the missiles the US wants to put in Poland, right?[/quote]

Evil, evil U.S.
Yawn.

[quote]NateOrade wrote:
lixy wrote:
Russia is completely out of line here. Opposing is one thing, threatening to nuke is another. It’s clearly empty rhetoric though.

Still, the US should shut its yap and let countries with credibility denounce Russia here. The US threatens military action all the time and all over the globe (unlike Russia that typically sticks to its surroundings) and actually follows through on some of those threats.

It took you 4 sentences to turn this back to the U.S. being bad.

Your douchiness is as strong as ever.[/quote]

Looks like I’m going to have to start another Islam thread. I didn’t want to…

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
The Evil Empire is back. Not unexpected when the KGB is running the show.[/quote]

On the bright side, Russians are dying out much more quickly than they’re reproducing. Within 10-20 years, they won’t have enough young men for this type of behavior.

[quote]NateOrade wrote:
lixy wrote:
NateOrade wrote:
lixy wrote:
Russia is completely out of line here. Opposing is one thing, threatening to nuke is another. It’s clearly empty rhetoric though.

Still, the US should shut its yap and let countries with credibility denounce Russia here. The US threatens military action all the time and all over the globe (unlike Russia that typically sticks to its surroundings) and actually follows through on some of those threats.

It took you 4 sentences to turn this back to the U.S. being bad.

Your douchiness is as strong as ever.

You do realize this is about the missiles the US wants to put in Poland, right?

Evil, evil U.S.
Yawn.[/quote]

Good and Evil are not concepts you can apply here.

What I wrote was that it is most hypocritical of the US to condemn Russia when Washington threatened, invaded and bombed so many countries all over the world.

Use your brains once in a while.

[quote]lixy wrote:
NateOrade wrote:
lixy wrote:

You do realize this is about the missiles the US wants to put in Poland, right?[/quote]

How do you feel about the Russians wanting to base nuclear bombers in Cuba?

[quote]lixy wrote:

U.S. bad! U.S. bad!
[/quote]

[quote]lixy wrote:
Good and Evil are not concepts you can apply here.

What I wrote was that it is most hypocritical of the US to condemn Russia when Washington threatened, invaded and bombed so many countries all over the world.

Use your brains once in a while.[/quote]

Russia invaded and bombed many countries as well. So it is equally hypocritical of them.

They once invaded Poland so maybe it is why the Polish do not want them meddling in their affairs and also why Poland feels the need for a missile shield.

[quote]lixy wrote:
NateOrade wrote:
lixy wrote:
NateOrade wrote:
lixy wrote:
Russia is completely out of line here. Opposing is one thing, threatening to nuke is another. It’s clearly empty rhetoric though.

Still, the US should shut its yap and let countries with credibility denounce Russia here. The US threatens military action all the time and all over the globe (unlike Russia that typically sticks to its surroundings) and actually follows through on some of those threats.

It took you 4 sentences to turn this back to the U.S. being bad.

Your douchiness is as strong as ever.

You do realize this is about the missiles the US wants to put in Poland, right? [/quote]

Not at all. This is about Poland a country that has been brutally invaded by Russia doing what is in it’s best interests to prevent being attacked by the Russians again.

Back in 1939 the Western Polish border went to the outskirts of Minsk in BeloRussia. Lithuania had no border with Russia. Almost half of present day Poland was carved out of Germany at the end of world war two to compensate for the land the Russians took. [quote]

Evil, evil U.S.
Yawn.

Good and Evil are not concepts you can apply here.

What I wrote was that it is most hypocritical of the US to condemn Russia when Washington threatened, invaded and bombed so many countries all over the world.

Use your brains once in a while.[/quote]

Russia has invaded lots of countries and enslaved millions. They have exterminated tens of millions. Only an anti-liberterian socialist like you could try to blame Russia’s belligerance upon America.

[quote]lixy wrote:

What I wrote was that it is most hypocritical of the US to condemn Russia when Washington threatened, invaded and bombed so many countries all over the world.[/quote]

The mistake you make over and over - intentional, I believe - is that you treat all “invasions” as moral equivalents. A military action is a military action is a military action, and there are no qualitative differences.

It is idiocy. An invasion in Iraq with the hopes of leaving a liberal democracy behind is not the same as a snarling Russia looking to recapture its former glory.

On that note, I am trying to remember a time when you picked the right side of a fight. You are an apologist for Islamic terrorism, and now, the one action that should generate condemnation from you, based on your usual hysterics - naked, power-hungry imperialism from Russia - gets a pass and actually isn’t blameworthy on its own right because, guess what, it is the US’ fault the Russians rolled tanks into Georgia in the first place.

If it is totalitarian, illiberal, or barbaric, you always provide philosophical cover and punt responsibility. It’s a shame you can’t wash off - you are as transparent as ever.

You first.