T Nation

Russia Approaching Georgian Capital. What Will OB Do?

Politics and World Issues
#1

The shit is about to hit the fan…

“Russia has stationed its forces just 25 miles (40 kilometers) from the Georgian capital, in violation of the EU-brokered cease-fire that ended last year’s brief war. And in recent weeks, it has sent even more troops and armored vehicles to within striking distance of the city ahead of street protests against Georgia’s president.”

Looks like the Russ are gonna put some real pressure on President Saakashvili. They paid some Georgians to go and protest and move some tanks nearby… classic move… Putting some military pressure on Saakashvili to quite, and once he falls say “Hey I didn’t do shit, it was the Georgian people who did it”

fellas… all joking, all conspiracy theories, and all bullshit aside:
Putin is about to test what Obama is made off
-he better NOT let this Russ shit fly otherwise… Ukraine is next. And Poland, Lithuania, etc come after that.

p.s Oh don’t forget N.Korea will likely test another missile within a month of the fall of Georgia’s president…

#2

[quote]Neospartan wrote:

Looks like the Russ are gonna put some real pressure on President Saakashvili. They paid some Georgians to go and protest and move some tanks nearby… classic move… [/quote]

Actually, the “paid Georgians” is how Shalikashvili is spinning it. They are actually the entire democratic opposition.

Shalikashvili is just a petty dictator actually. He came to power through blatant election fraud, even then just barely. The public opinion is against him, and he’s trying to survive by clinging to power and labeling anyone in opposition as Russian agents paid by Putin.

At least Putin can pull this quasi-dictator stuff successfully and with style.

#3

This is payback for America supporting the Kosovo muslims carving out a chunk of Serbia for their own country.

Another issue is the Israeli Air Force had planned to use Georgian airfields to launch a strike on Iran’s nuclear program until the Russians invaded and captured the airfields. So this could be a move to protect the Iranian nuclear program.

#4

[quote]Sifu wrote:
This is payback for America supporting the Kosovo muslims carving out a chunk of Serbia for their own country.
[/quote]

Putin is a cynical bastard, but he’s regularly calling out the West on hypocrisy and double standards. Like when Cheney on his infamous Caucasus tour besides Georgia praised Azerbaijan as well as a model democracy (hint: it’s not a democracy if a son suceeds the father)

On the other hand, Iranians are not stupid either. Crazy yes, but not stupid. They’re dishing out enough hard cash to the Russians (arms sales, legit nuclear programme) for their non-belligerence and occasional political opposition to the US on Iran issues.

#5

I don’t really think the Russians, are going to run into Lithuania and Ukraine…why would they? You’re stuck in cold war thinking, Russia is concerned with her insular development right now. Read up on Russia 2020, theh country is trying to post-modernize, and become a leading technological and international business engine, not some brutalitarian world bully that pulls the rye bread out of field worker’s hands for the tables of the political elite.

One of my best friend’s got deported back to Russia, and despite what you might believe, he has become extremely wealthy there, and says Russia has given him the opportunity that his family expected from America but didn’t provide.

You can believe whatever you want, but Russia’s military position probably has more to do with keeping NATO out of their frontyard, than crushing the Georgian bug. By all means, Georgia deserves a regime change, their psychotic leader has put them on a suicidal pro-western mission to become Israel 2.0 and snub a Northern nation that hasn’t done anything wrong to them.

Georgia started the war from the Summer, they went to subdue, and brutalize the Ossetian Muslim minority in their country because Georgia is a RACIST nation, Georgia is for the Georgians, they are big headed ancient people who think their piece of shit history and territorial integrity is more important than the lives of others. Russia has the other half Osseta as a protectorate, so when the Georgians were wholesale destroying Ossetia and punishing the Ossetians, the Russians responding in pushing them back and expelling them. All the damage done to the Georgian cities, was 90% in Ossetia and the cause of the Georgian forces. CNN even later admited that they misrepresented the conflict in displaying the ruins of Ossetia to ‘Russian invasion,’ headlines.

Russia did not abuse Georgia during the Soviet Union, and all of Saakashivlii’s claims are bullshit. Georgia was like the Florida of the Soviet Union and basically a tourist hotspot which gave it a far more favorable lifestyle than the rest of the regions. On top of this, if you still are still so bull-headed to believe Saakashvilli’s bullshit, then riddle me this…If the Soviet Union was a bully over Georgia, why was the most notorious Soviet leader, Stalin a FUCKING GEORGIAN? Stalin favored the Georgians, and modern Georgia is a product of favoritism of Stalin, all that Ossetia was attach to their SSR because of him, that’s not even their historical land. This situation is just retarded, and can’t even believe the propaganda perpetuated by the NeoCons has taken you guy’s this far.

#6

[quote]Neospartan wrote:
They paid some Georgians to go and protest and move some tanks nearby… [/quote]

What a dumb thing to write!

Nobody’s getting paid “to go and protest”. Just because Saakashvili is on your side, doesn’t make him a good guy in absolute terms. In fact, Human Rights in the country deteriorated during his authoritarian rule. As for Ossetia, it is mostly mistreated by Georgia, not Russia. One could make some arguments against Russia’s involvement, but Americans should shut their yap. You see, Russia’s got about 100 times more legitimacy rolling tanks into Ossetia than the US had bombing Iraq.

#7

Let me solve this debate before it happens.
Let’s put this all in perspective.
Let’s say the NAU came to be after a devestating war with European Union and China.

During this period, a large number of blacks in the USA moved to California. From here, due to overpopulation in the SoCal and economic development, may of them moved to Baja California.

After a great economic upset, Canada, USA and Mexico split again into their own countries. The USA remained an English speaking, honkey first country, with a large black and hispanic population who were treated with respect and dignity.

The African Americans of Baja California who are intrinsically linked to those of California, are not submissive to the new Mexican government, and would prefer closer ties for their province with the North and their ethnic kin. The North provides this by allowing them free entrance and exchange into and out of California.

A nationalist Mexican leader who is funded by China, and the EU wishes to create a Greater Mexico that honors its incredible indigenous past. He wishes to setup Chinese and EU bases in Mexico, and join a military alliance with them, for his own ‘protection’ from the usa.

During this time the rowdy negros in the Baja California are insulting his nation and threatening its integrity so he sends the army in to pacify them (they are not in armed insurrection.) They shell black areas with artillery, and go from house to house pulling people out and brutalizing them, throwing grenades in bomb shelters, and destroying african american property without any specific mission but to terrorize the populace.

The USA who has a domestic black population of 15% and is compelled to intervene. The USA invades, and expells the Mexican army onto the nearest non-black city; then fortifies baja california, recognizes its independence and leaves the contigious regions alone.

Sound familiar? This is what happened in the Ossetia conflict, except unlike Mexico who had half her territory robbed from her through conquest and pillage. Russia has historically been the protector of Georgia from the Ottomans and previous Muslim empires, which is what started their relationship. And unlike Mexico, the most omnipotent Soviet leader responsible for killing 30 million RUSSIANs and creating a greater Georgian SSR was a FUCKING GEORGIAN. The same cannot be said for a US leader who was Hispanic or Mexican.

So pull your head out of your ass, leave the cold war and look at the facts. It’s not that difficult.

#8

I wouldn’t be so sure…

both presidents of Georgia and the Ukraine were ex-cabinet top CCCP party members. And had been in power in those respective countries since the fall of the CCCP.

Both Georgia’s and Ukraine’s presidents are recent upstarts, coming to the top positions via the Rose and Orange revolution respectively in the past few years. And also both want to side with the EU and the USA, and reduce their ties/dependency with Russia.

Now… Georgia made a stupid move invading S. Ossetia believing for odd reason the USA will intervene. Stupid yes, but that doesn’t change the fact the Russ would like to have a “friendly” president in power again.

As for the Ukraine twice have they had their gas cut off by the Russ, who claims they have to pay more now. Political opposition is also building up, specially from Eastern Ukraine which has historical ties with Russ since 1650+.

Oh as for Georgia being a protected from Russia from the Ottomans… thats how Russia has been selling it since the 18th Century.

Historically Georgia (along with Armenia and Azerbaijan) has been a highway for invading armies traveling south from Steppes, or north from Anatolia or Persia. Only since the the 18th Century has Russia controlled Caucasus region and northern ports on the Black Sea. Engaging in several wars against the Ottoman Empire in the process.

#9

Can someone explain why Russia invading Georgia, if that were to even happen again (leaving aside the fact that Georgia essentially started it the first time), is any real concern of ours?

#10

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
Can someone explain why Russia invading Georgia, if that were to even happen again (leaving aside the fact that Georgia essentially started it the first time), is any real concern of ours?[/quote]