I want to know your opinions on what you think
would reap better yields as a cycle:
Running:
Test P: weeks 1-8 100mg/ED
Tren A: weeks 1-6 75mg/ED
or
TestP: weeks 1-8 100mg/ED
Tren A: weeks 1-8 50mg/ED
basically running tren for the entire cycle
at a lower dose or keep it higher for a shorter
period
-tw1st
I am going to cast my vote for options #2. Running both Prop and Tren for 8 week side by side. My reasoning is that 50mg/day should be enough to make a noticeable difference and may actually lower the risk or severity of sides a little. My .02.
I’d lean towards #2 myself though really flip a coin. If you can tolerate 75mg heck you could run 75mg for 8 weeks. Basically run as much tren as you need and can stand 50mg will see the results
Thanks for the responses.
-tw1st
I’ve always subscribed to the rule that less is more with tren. But on the other hand, if you can tolerate it and see better gains, then go for a higher dose. However, if you will get the same gains, but worse sides, don’t even think about it.
Another option would be to do it EOD at a different dose…
What are you planning on doing for yourself post cycle? I’m think a taper would be good due to the fact you will be running a 19nor for 8 weeks. So theoretically speaking, your PCT could be as long, and possibly longer than your cycle…
World
World,
I was going to run clomid until normal again. I was thinking at least 6 weeks.
Well good luck then.
And enjoy the 2-3 months you will have to take off altogether.
World
So not to hijack, but this seemed like a good place to ask the question–does anyone know how tren causes hair loss? It’s supposed to be 5-A reductase independent right? Sorry, but I didn’t want to start a whole new thread for that question.
/hijack
[quote]World1187 wrote:
Well good luck then.
And enjoy the 2-3 months you will have to take off altogether.
World[/quote]
World,
What would you recommend to being the optimal pct? In your
previous post you mentioned a taper, can you elaborate?
-tw1st
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
So not to hijack, but this seemed like a good place to ask the question–does anyone know how tren causes hair loss? It’s supposed to be 5-A reductase independent right? Sorry, but I didn’t want to start a whole new thread for that question.
/hijack[/quote]
you are correct that tren does not reduce to DHT but it does cause hairloss pretty bad if you are predispositioned to it.
it is believed that tren will bind to the receptors in your scalp directly and activate them just like DHT would.
[quote]tw1st wrote:
World1187 wrote:
Well good luck then.
And enjoy the 2-3 months you will have to take off altogether.
World
World,
What would you recommend to being the optimal pct? In your
previous post you mentioned a taper, can you elaborate?
-tw1st[/quote]
The taper being the same one that everybody and their brother asks about. I sure wish the mods would stick it.
For this cycle, a good taper would be the following:
4 weeks: 100mg test/wk
4 weeks: 80 60 40 20
Don’t use any AIs or SERMS during the stasis, but feel free to use nolva while on the actual taper to combat gyno if it is present. Use your AIs on cycle though if problems arise, Adex is always good and I like what I’ve seen of Aromasin. However, if you have progesterone related problems from the tren, then you’ll need cabergoline. I would advise just keeping your estrogen under control and I cant imagine you would end up needing caber.
World
Thanks man.
[quote]World1187 wrote:
The taper being the same one that everybody and their brother asks about. I sure wish the mods would stick it.
For this cycle, a good taper would be the following:
4 weeks: 100mg test/wk
4 weeks: 80 60 40 20
Don’t use any AIs or SERMS during the stasis, but feel free to use nolva while on the actual taper to combat gyno if it is present. Use your AIs on cycle though if problems arise, Adex is always good and I like what I’ve seen of Aromasin. However, if you have progesterone related problems from the tren, then you’ll need cabergoline. I would advise just keeping your estrogen under control and I cant imagine you would end up needing caber.
World
[/quote]
World, I believe you mean it is okay to use Nolva during the stasis period, don’t you? This is what Prisoner has said. My understanding is that you should be completely free of all ancillaries during the taper itself.
I don’t quite see the point in using nolva during the stasis.
You’re still shutdown during the stasis and nolva will do nothing for that at that point in time due to the fact you are injecting more test than your body produce normally. It is not till the taper that you fall below “normal” physiological levels and your shutdown begins to reverse.
I simply don’t see the point during the stasis, however during the taper could add that extra punch you’d need, even with only 20mg/day.
World
I must advise against running Ace as an EOD. The sides really can multiple [dosage dependent] with EOD. If you subscribe to the notion that I do that which says the half-life a product is best calculated by the factor of .7 x the number of carbon atoms, you can see why EOD dosing is sub-optimal for Ace.
In layman’s terms Acetate is a 2 carbon ester. 2x.7=1.4 Meaning you have hit it everyday or your blood levels drop too low. Its the same reason prop is an EOD 3x.7=2.1 Enanthate 7x.7=4.9 could probably be justified as an E4D but E3D/twice a week seems to be more popular. Its also the reason NandroloneDeca and EQ 10 and 11 respectively could be justified as once a weekers.
The science aside, experience teaches that Tren is better tolerated by my body and most others as an ED versus an EOD.
[quote]World1187 wrote:
I don’t quite see the point in using nolva during the stasis.
You’re still shutdown during the stasis and nolva will do nothing for that at that point in time due to the fact you are injecting more test than your body produce normally. It is not till the taper that you fall below “normal” physiological levels and your shutdown begins to reverse.
I simply don’t see the point during the stasis, however during the taper could add that extra punch you’d need, even with only 20mg/day.
World[/quote]
I too follow the protocol of SERM during taper not stasis. It makes sense for the exact reason that World outlined. I also thought I read it in the updated taper thread. I will attempt to find the link and quote.
[quote]2thepain wrote:
World1187 wrote:
I don’t quite see the point in using nolva during the stasis.
You’re still shutdown during the stasis and nolva will do nothing for that at that point in time due to the fact you are injecting more test than your body produce normally. It is not till the taper that you fall below “normal” physiological levels and your shutdown begins to reverse.
I simply don’t see the point during the stasis, however during the taper could add that extra punch you’d need, even with only 20mg/day.
World
I too follow the protocol of SERM during taper not stasis. It makes sense for the exact reason that World outlined. I also thought I read it in the updated taper thread. I will attempt to find the link and quote.[/quote]
Here’s the excerpt 2the is talking about;
"Once the taper starts, that is around the time you would start using a serm if you are going to use one.
You can taper without a serm and still be successfull doing so.
the research showed no hpta suppression while using a serm and low dose testosterone - 100mg per week
It also showed no hpta suppression with no serm use while using 25mg of testosterone enanthate per week.
So as i said it is possible to taper with our without a serm successfully".
ToneBone[quote]InTheZone wrote:
2thepain wrote:
World1187 wrote:
I don’t quite see the point in using nolva during the stasis.
You’re still shutdown during the stasis and nolva will do nothing for that at that point in time due to the fact you are injecting more test than your body produce normally. It is not till the taper that you fall below “normal” physiological levels and your shutdown begins to reverse.
I simply don’t see the point during the stasis, however during the taper could add that extra punch you’d need, even with only 20mg/day.
World
I too follow the protocol of SERM during taper not stasis. It makes sense for the exact reason that World outlined. I also thought I read it in the updated taper thread. I will attempt to find the link and quote.
Here’s the excerpt 2the is talking about;
Once the taper starts, that is around the time you would start using a serm if you are going to use one.
You can taper without a serm and still be successfull doing so.
the research showed no hpta suppression while using a serm and low dose testosterone - 100mg per week
It also showed no hpta suppression with no serm use while using 25mg of testosterone enanthate per week.
So as i said it is possible to taper with our without a serm successfully.
ToneBone[/quote]
Thanks for finding that Tone. It took me a while to figure out it got stickied at the top.