T Nation

Running Pulse Feast with Layer System??


#1

CT, I have decided on the Layer System for 8 weeks leading starting the new year because our gym will be crowded and I won’t have to move plus from my little trial run I loved the techniques involved.

Would the pulse feast be ok to do during this style of lifting?
I’d like to have a recomp effect. I’m already decently lean at maybe 13-15%. The feast absolutely fits my schedule perfect. Any other recommendations?

Also adding Plasma Peri-workout.


#2

One word: NO.

Two words: NO WAY

I’ll spare you the three words sentence!

The layer system has to be done in a caloric surplus as a muscle-building program. While it is technically possible to get a caloric surplus from a pulse feast in reality it just doesn’t have the same effect as a more even dietary approach. I’ve tried it and crashed.


#3

CT this doesn’t apply to morning training (say 1-3 hours after waking up) with just coffee/preworkout/BCAAs (or intraworkout drink) right? No prior food but bcaa’s during workout, then regular meals rest of day.


#4

[quote]-Sigil- wrote:
CT this doesn’t apply to morning training (say 1-3 hours after waking up) with just coffee/preworkout/BCAAs (or intraworkout drink) right? No prior food but bcaa’s during workout, then regular meals rest of day.[/quote]

The question was combining the layer system AND THE PULSE FEAST. The situation you are describing doesn’t relate in any shape or form to the pulse feast.

Pulse feast = 1 solid meal (or eating window) at the end of the day plus 3 MAG-10 pulses during the day

What you are describing = peri-workout protocol then 3-5 solid food meals during the day.

Not similar in any regard


#5

Sigil, to be clear:

The reasons why the layer system and pulse feasting doesn’t work are:

  1. I found through experience that pulse feasting, even if the solid mean has tons of calories will not lead to a lot of muscle growth. It is mostly a way to lose fat while maintaining or gaining a small amount of muscle while not feeling deprived during the day.

  2. The layer system is designed to maximize muscle growth and strength, period. It’s not a fat loss, recomp or toning program. When you use it, if you are to get what the program is deigned to do, you must consume enough nutrients to fuel growth and also avoid any catabolic windows during the day.

I say that layer and pulse feast don’t mix. But I would have given the same answer to any fat loss diet. Low carbs and layers don’t mix. Low calories and layers don’t mix, etc.

Simply put if your main goal is to lose a significant amount of fat and plan on using a nutritional strategy to lose fat, the layer system is not the best way to train.

That’s it.


#6

Edit: CT - For someone focused on hypertrophy but needing to cut for fat loss for about two months (possibly the 5/2 diet), what type of strength training do you recommend when in a caloric deficit? Can lighter pump/failure work still be done with any effectiveness, or should heavy lifting be the main method to preserve strength, thereby preserving muscle?

Thank you.


#7

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
One word: NO.

Two words: NO WAY

I’ll spare you the three words sentence!

The layer system has to be done in a caloric surplus as a muscle-building program. While it is technically possible to get a caloric surplus from a pulse feast in reality it just doesn’t have the same effect as a more even dietary approach. I’ve tried it and crashed.
[/quote]

Well I’m at a crossroads then. I really love the idea of the pulse feast. What program of yours would you run with it?

Or do you have a good strategy with just a few meals where I can utilize Mag10.and Plasma on a mass gain protocol.


#8

[quote]bandb wrote:
Well I’m at a crossroads then. I really love the idea of the pulse feast. What program of yours would you run with it?

Or do you have a good strategy with just a few meals where I can utilize Mag10.and Plasma on a mass gain protocol.
[/quote]

From your posts I get the feeling that what you are after is a combination of plenty of muscle gain AND plenty of fat loss.

Honestly this rarely happens.

I’d like to tell you that it does but in really unless you are a beginner, someone getting back to training, a genetic freak or using performance-enhancing drugs it’s not likely to happen.

Well in some people it can… mostly people who eat a crappy diet (i.e. mostly junk) and who switch to a solid diet. But even that doesn’t last forever.

You can…

  1. Gain a lot of muscle mass while accepting a small to moderate amount of fat gain

  2. Gain a significant amount of muscle while maintaining body fat levels or accepting a small gain in fat.

  3. Gain some muscle while losing some fat

  4. Lose a significant amount of fat gradually while maintaining muscle mass

  5. Lose a lot of fat fast while accepting a small amount of muscle loss

YES there are exceptions. But I prefer to base an advice/recommendation/strategy based on the majority not on a few exceptions.

If you try to lose a lot of fat AND gain plenty of muscle at the same time you are doomed to fail and end up frustrated.

The physiological states to gain maximum muscle and to lose a lot of fat are drastically different.

So really what you should ask yourself right now is which of the 5 categories above do you belong to at the moment. That would determine which strategy you should use.

I know that changing your body is an emotional issue. You don’t like what you see, you want more muscle and you want to be leaner… and you want it NOW. But in most cases if you chases two rabbits at once you might end up empty handed.


#9

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]bandb wrote:
Well I’m at a crossroads then. I really love the idea of the pulse feast. What program of yours would you run with it?

Or do you have a good strategy with just a few meals where I can utilize Mag10.and Plasma on a mass gain protocol.
[/quote]

From your posts I get the feeling that what you are after is a combination of plenty of muscle gain AND plenty of fat loss.

Honestly this rarely happens.

I’d like to tell you that it does but in really unless you are a beginner, someone getting back to training, a genetic freak or using performance-enhancing drugs it’s not likely to happen.

Well in some people it can… mostly people who eat a crappy diet (i.e. mostly junk) and who switch to a solid diet. But even that doesn’t last forever.

You can…

  1. Gain a lot of muscle mass while accepting a small to moderate amount of fat gain

  2. Gain a significant amount of muscle while maintaining body fat levels or accepting a small gain in fat.

  3. Gain some muscle while losing some fat

  4. Lose a significant amount of fat gradually while maintaining muscle mass

  5. Lose a lot of fat fast while accepting a small amount of muscle loss

YES there are exceptions. But I prefer to base an advice/recommendation/strategy based on the majority not on a few exceptions.

If you try to lose a lot of fat AND gain plenty of muscle at the same time you are doomed to fail and end up frustrated.

The physiological states to gain maximum muscle and to lose a lot of fat are drastically different.

So really what you should ask yourself right now is which of the 5 categories above do you belong to at the moment. That would determine which strategy you should use.

I know that changing your body is an emotional issue. You don’t like what you see, you want more muscle and you want to be leaner… and you want it NOW. But in most cases if you chases two rabbits at once you might end up empty handed.[/quote]

I would say 3 would be what I’m after. For the last 5 years I always was around 175ish because I had to make 165 for amtuer boxing. I’m done with that so I really did my first REAL bulk the last 8 months and am now around 195-200. I was always ripped so I had to get used to putting on some fat and losing definition. I still have good definition but I’d really love to bring out some more and create the illusion if being bigger. The reason pulse feast is intriguing is because I basically was eating 1-2 big meals a day but only using 6g Peptopro intra in some Gatorade. And I really LOVE your programs and techniques for training so I wanted to use one of them as well. I’ve looked at The Layer, Indigo Project, I, Bodybuilder and some other favorites are Leo Costas programs from the 90s. But then also I realize I could be missing out big time on muscle gain by not eating a typical BB style diet. So that’s why ive come to you