Running on Performance

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
21

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
You are not making any sense. In the very article you cite, the author notes that a person should MINIMIZE endurance work in the off season. The goal is to MAINTAIN one’s sport-specific endurance. MAINTAIN is not the same as GAIN.

THE ARTICLE WAS ABOUT INCREASING STRENGTH / POWER WHILE LETTING EDURANCE WORK GO. THEN COMING BACK TO IT WHILE MAINTAINING ALL THE GAINS. I KNOW THEY AREN’T BEING TRAINED AT THE SAME TIME, BUT AT THE END OF IT ALL, THEY HAVE BOTH BEEN INCREASED (SLOW MAY HAVE ONLY BEEN MAINTAINED)

Because FOOTBALL PLAYERS and other athletes need a lot of slow-twitch fibers? Have you read his Q&As? He is AGAINST “endurance” work for guys who want to be big and strong.

NOTICE HOW i SAID OTHER THAN FOOBALL PLAYERS? HE DOES HAVE WRESTLERS, BASKETBALL PLAYERS, ETC. ALSO. NO, HE IS NO AGAINST ENDURANCE WORK, HE SIMPLY DOES NOT LIKE TO WORK ON IT DURING MOST OF THE OFF-SEASON. HE PERIODIZES IT. I’LL FIND THE EXACT Q&A WHERE HE TALKS ABOUT IT.

Most athletes are advised to do HIIT. That does not train slow-twich fibers. Sprinting and running several miles recruit different muscle fibers.

YES

This entire thread involved this question: Can I get stronger while training for a half-marathon. My answer was, “If so, not by much.” You have not eroded my argument.

HERE IS HIS QUESTION:
“I guess my question is more, how do i reduce the transition of fibres while training for the half marathon.”

AND YOU HAVE NEVER ANSWERED THE QUESTION, SO DON’T PUT THOSE WORDS IN QUOTATIONS. (UNLESS YOUR POST ISN’T SHOWING UP…)

My life is great. This site used to be great until clueless people invaded the site. Too many of you have driven off the serious athletes, strongmen, powerlifters, and bodybuilders from this site.

CLUELESS? I HAVE CONTRIBUTED MORE TO THIS THAN YOU HAVE…

Guys like you who have accomplished nothing seek validation. I don’t give it. Hence, I am a big meanie. [/quote]

caps

22

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
vision1 wrote:
Do you even know what this discussion is about? The OP wanted to know what to do to minimize his losses while trainig for a half marathon.

Here is what the OP actually asked: “Does anyone have any experience with training for marathons while also training for powerlifting?” The implication is that the OP wants to train for a marathon while also training for powerlifting. As several people have told him, you can’t train for powerlifting AND train for a marathon.

Thus, I have to wonder: “Do you even know what this discussion is about?”[/quote]

And he has rephrased his question to

“I guess my question is more, how do i reduce the transition of fibres while training for the half marathon.”

You should try and keep up with all the newer replies.

23

Here’s what Defranco said:

Q: Hey Joe,
I read a lot of your success stories. I can see how you have a lot of kids following your program. But, I want to tell you I am not too happy about my 16 year old son’s progress. Yes, he has gotten bigger and stronger, but he can not move. At 15 he was 5’10" 190 lbs. and was a pretty good athlete, started both ways in football and was a starter in basketball. Since on your program, he is now 6’1"248 lbs.-big and strong, but can’t move. All he does is lift and eat a lot of protein. He never runs, no cardio, no quickness. He says those things are not good to do, straight from you and your friends at T-Nation and elite fitness systems. He played linebacker last year but now he is too slow, they put him on the line. He was actually better at basketball, but now he would not be able to get up and down the court more than a couple times. I would appreciate if you guys would tell your young athletes how important it is to maintain their speed and quickness, no matter what sport they want to excel in. To me, there is too much emphasis on strength, not quickness.

Thank you for your time,
Concerned father of Cory (superiorathlete on T-Nation)

A: Please tell me where I said that running & quickness training were not good to do. Those words have NEVER come out of my mouth. I make a LIVING getting athletes faster & quicker; speed & quickness training is a big part of our program. (Any athlete that has trained with us knows that.)

Unfortunately, this is another case of someone misunderstanding what they read on the internet. I have said that during the INITIAL STAGES OF THE OFF-SEASON, strength training, rehabbing injuries & nutrition are MORE IMPORTANT than running & conditioning. Those are the things that “build the foundation” for a fast athlete. As the weeks & months go on and the season gets closer, the emphasis should switch from strength training to speed training, quickness training & conditioning (while trying to MAINTAIN strength).

I’m sorry you have misunderstood some of my philosophies.

P.S. If your son really gained 58 POUNDS, he’s eating more than just protein! As a parent of a 16-year-old kid, YOU are responsible for the food that’s in your fridge! And since you’re blaming “my program” for making him slower, can I also take credit for making him taller? After all, he went from 5’10" to 6’01" on “My program” so I guess I can claim that my program makes athletes taller too?!

Get my point??
Joe D.

24

[quote]vision1 wrote:
Here’s what Defranco said:

Q: Hey Joe,
I read a lot of your success stories. I can see how you have a lot of kids following your program. But, I want to tell you I am not too happy about my 16 year old son’s progress. Yes, he has gotten bigger and stronger, but he can not move. At 15 he was 5’10" 190 lbs. and was a pretty good athlete, started both ways in football and was a starter in basketball. Since on your program, he is now 6’1"248 lbs.-big and strong, but can’t move. All he does is lift and eat a lot of protein. He never runs, no cardio, no quickness. He says those things are not good to do, straight from you and your friends at T-Nation and elite fitness systems. He played linebacker last year but now he is too slow, they put him on the line. He was actually better at basketball, but now he would not be able to get up and down the court more than a couple times. I would appreciate if you guys would tell your young athletes how important it is to maintain their speed and quickness, no matter what sport they want to excel in. To me, there is too much emphasis on strength, not quickness.

Thank you for your time,
Concerned father of Cory (superiorathlete on T-Nation)

A: Please tell me where I said that running & quickness training were not good to do. Those words have NEVER come out of my mouth. I make a LIVING getting athletes faster & quicker; speed & quickness training is a big part of our program. (Any athlete that has trained with us knows that.)

Unfortunately, this is another case of someone misunderstanding what they read on the internet. I have said that during the INITIAL STAGES OF THE OFF-SEASON, strength training, rehabbing injuries & nutrition are MORE IMPORTANT than running & conditioning. Those are the things that “build the foundation” for a fast athlete. As the weeks & months go on and the season gets closer, the emphasis should switch from strength training to speed training, quickness training & conditioning (while trying to MAINTAIN strength).

I’m sorry you have misunderstood some of my philosophies.

P.S. If your son really gained 58 POUNDS, he’s eating more than just protein! As a parent of a 16-year-old kid, YOU are responsible for the food that’s in your fridge! And since you’re blaming “my program” for making him slower, can I also take credit for making him taller? After all, he went from 5’10" to 6’01" on “My program” so I guess I can claim that my program makes athletes taller too?!

Get my point??
Joe D.
[/quote]

Right back at you vision1, great post.

25

[quote]vision1 wrote:
Here’s what Defranco said:
[/quote]

Show me where DeFranco recommends long run or argues that long runs are consistent with strength training.

Do you just not comprehend what you read, or have you lost track of the discussion?

You CAN NOT (caps, italics, bold, underline, etc.) train to be a powerlifter while training for a marathon.

Show me ONE source in support of your argument that you can. No made up examples. No articles that support MY points rather than your own.

26

[quote]vision1 wrote:
“I guess my question is more, how do i reduce the transition of fibres while training for the half marathon.”

You should try and keep up with all the newer replies.[/quote]

I am SLOWLY going to explain where you have gone wrong.

Here is what you have said:

  • “I know the improvements would be very slow, but it must be possible to increase both types of fibers.”

This not a statement of fact. It is an OPINION - YOUR own opinion, which has zero value.

  • “I haven’t seen any information on this, but just from experience I know it’s possible to increase both. I’m also sure athletes do it all the time.”

You never explained what “experience” you had that proves your point. You just expect us to believe you.

In your next post, you write:

  • “But yes it is possible to increase both.”

This is an OPINION, not a factual statement. Do you know the difference?

  • "Example: (I’ll use points to show what I mean) A1 starts with 10 points of fast twitch and 10 points of slow twitch. "

This is a made-up example not based on real life. You just pull a number out of your ass and run with it. I could just as easily have written: A1 starts with 3 arms and 15 fingers. Does that mean that people have three arms?

You then quote an article that states: “One session per week of low intensity conditioning will be enough to maintain the majority of your conditioning off-season… A couple of months prior to your season is when you’d want to add in a day of anaerobic conditioning.”

How can you read “low intensity conditioning” and “anaerobic conditioning” and get “half marathon”?

You then approve of TJ’s example: “T.J, that’s a very good example.” Why is using an athlete who runs 1500m a good example of what will happen to someone who trains for a half-marathon. You do realize that a half-marathon is longer than 1500m, no?

I think I’ve written enough to educate you.

Keep reading.

27

My example was actually to prove, even at an elite level, even one of the best pure athletes in the USA, still has difficulty being effective at strength events and at a 1500m race. Powerlifting and a marathon is an even larger contrast than my example. That’s why I would like to know more about this individual?s goal?

Is he a proficient runner now, or a proficient powerlifter now. What are his best powerlifts now at what bodyweight, does he want to improve on those lifts while improving on his marathon time. I know so little about what this guy is actually trying to achieve.

You CAN train for both a powerlifting meet and a marathon at the same time if you want to, but how successful do you want to be? How much does he want to improve from where he is today?

My opinion is simply this, if he was to train hard at both, he would just become mediocre at both. The events just contradict each other, and work against each other. I believe the powerlifting would suffer most, from all the endurance training, it would just be overkill, your body’s CNS just wouldn’t effectively powerlift from all the running.

28

It is obvious that you can’t train to win a marathon while gaining plenty of strength. However, I think that if you have
some guts there is no reason for you to quit before the end of the race. Lift twice a week(basic exercices only),add 10 minutes of HIIT after your workouts, run three times a week(two 45 minutes jogs and an interval session) for a couple of months, you won’t lose a significant amount of strength and your running performance will markedly improve. Your half-marathon won’t be a breeze, but you will finish it.

29

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
I am SLOWLY going to explain where you have gone wrong.

Here is what you have said:

  • “I know the improvements would be very slow, but it must be possible to increase both types of fibers.”

This not a statement of fact. It is an OPINION - YOUR own opinion, which has zero value.

I HAVE EXPLAINED WHY, GO BACK AND READ.

  • “I haven’t seen any information on this, but just from experience I know it’s possible to increase both. I’m also sure athletes do it all the time.”

You never explained what “experience” you had that proves your point. You just expect us to believe you.

IF YOU WERE INVOLVED WITH SPORTS (OTHER THAN PLING) YOU’D KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE AS WELL. WHEN AN ATHLETE BECOMES STRONGER/FASTER IN THE OFFSEASON, THEN COMES BACK TO ALL THE CONDITIONING, HE/SHE DOESN’T LOSE EVERYTHING THEY GAINED. IF THEY DID, NO ONE WOULD EVER PUT AN EFFORT IN BECOMING STRONGER DURING THEIR OFFSEASON.

In your next post, you write:

  • “But yes it is possible to increase both.”

This is an OPINION, not a factual statement. Do you know the difference?

YES, READ ABOVE (OR MY LAST COUPLE OF POSTS)

  • "Example: (I’ll use points to show what I mean) A1 starts with 10 points of fast twitch and 10 points of slow twitch. "

This is a made-up example not based on real life. You just pull a number out of your ass and run with it. I could just as easily have written: A1 starts with 3 arms and 15 fingers. Does that mean that people have three arms?

THAT WAS A SIMPLE EXAMPLE OF WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY. I’M SURE MOST PEOPLE WHO READ IT COULD UNDERSTAND.

You then quote an article that states: “One session per week of low intensity conditioning will be enough to maintain the majority of your conditioning off-season… A couple of months prior to your season is when you’d want to add in a day of anaerobic conditioning.”

How can you read “low intensity conditioning” and “anaerobic conditioning” and get “half marathon”?

DID I SAY IT WAS THE SAME THING? THAT POST WAS USED TO SHOW THE OP WHAT KELLY SUGGESTED TO DO TO MAINTAIN STRENGTH.

You then approve of TJ’s example: “T.J, that’s a very good example.” Why is using an athlete who runs 1500m a good example of what will happen to someone who trains for a half-marathon. You do realize that a half-marathon is longer than 1500m, no?

YES I REALIZE, THAT DOESN’T MAKE A DIFFERENCE. IT’S THE PRINCIPLE THAT COUNTS. SOMEONE WHO IS FAST TWITCH DOMINANT MOST LIKELY WON’T DO WELL IN A 1500M, SAME AS A HALF MARATHON. AND INCASE YOU HAVEN’T NOTICED, I’VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT FAST TWITCH AND SLOW TWITCH. READ MY VERY FIRST REPLY. I HAVE NEVER SAID THE OP CAN BECOME A GOOD PLER + RUN A GOOD MARATHON TIME.

I think I’ve written enough to educate you.

Keep reading.

BACK AT YOU
[/quote]

caps

30

These types of debates are never ending. The OP should just see if HE CAN DO IT. We are all our own experiments. The OP should begin a six month program and see if he can accomplish both goals – run a marathon and improve on his three pl lifts and then report back HIS RESULTS. Now that would be interesting.

31

[quote]deputydawg wrote:
These types of debates are never ending. The OP should just see if HE CAN DO IT. We are all our own experiments. The OP should begin a six month program and see if he can accomplish both goals – run a marathon and improve on his three pl lifts and then report back HIS RESULTS. Now that would be interesting.[/quote]

Agreed, I don’t feel like doing any more argueing.

Although, the OP would be better off just maintaining his lifts, that way he’ll make better improvements for his marathon.