T Nation

Running, Lifting, Stacking

Right now I’m stacking Beta-7, Flameout, a multivitamin and Anavol that I have from when I worked at GNC.

My problem is that, as a runner, I need to pound out anywhere from 6-16 miles a day and then get to the gym 3 days a week after my runs.

After a 10 mile run my body is shot and it takes a real toll on my body and energy supplies when I’m at the gym.

I’m up in the air about whether to go back on Anavol, get Biotest Creatine, or eliminating it all together. I’m also ordering Rev-Z and Surge.

Any suggestions or improvements for my stacks? Best time to take these supplements and what should I take together at the same time?

You’re taking some quality supplements, that’s for sure. Nothing over-the-top or unnecessary, however, the volume of running is definitely very high. I can tell you from experience that no matter how much I tried to eat and supplement to make up for the high volume of running that I was doing (30 miles a week), I couldn’t gain lean body mass and it was actually harder to lose fast.

Once I got injured from the running (it’s bound to happen when volume stays high over a long period of time), I just ate a lot of quality food and lifted. In 4 weeks I put on 20 lbs of which most was muscle. My body was responding to the state of being well-fed and not literally run into the ground. So I went from 165-185 in a month and look a lot better.

Before, my calves and legs were just stick-thin and now they look to be in normal proportion to the rest of my body. My chest, back, and arms are all a lot bigger. I haven’t dropped body fat, but then again, I haven’t been meticulous about my diet and don’t really care at this point.

So, basically what I’m saying is, it’s pretty hard to out-supplement a running regimen like that and expect to gain a lot of LBM.

In all honesty, you are a prime candidate for a “weight gainer” drink if you decide to keep that volume of running. For most people, those shakes are a total “fat gainer” but in your case, it’s just hard to get the calories you need if you really want to gain weight - or even recover well enough from BOTH the running and the lifting.

Good luck and…stop running if you want to see what you’re growth potential is…

Chris

[quote]Q Cassidy wrote:
Right now I’m stacking Beta-7, Flameout, a multivitamin and Anavol that I have from when I worked at GNC.

My problem is that, as a runner, I need to pound out anywhere from 6-16 miles a day and then get to the gym 3 days a week after my runs.

After a 10 mile run my body is shot and it takes a real toll on my body and energy supplies when I’m at the gym.

I’m up in the air about whether to go back on Anavol, get Biotest Creatine, or eliminating it all together. I’m also ordering Rev-Z and Surge.

Any suggestions or improvements for my stacks? Best time to take these supplements and what should I take together at the same time?
[/quote]

I agree; your choice of supplements looks good. GREAT idea to begin taking surge both before and after your runs, as well as prior to and post your weighttraining sessions. REZ-V is a great product for estrogen reduction, subsequently increasing your strength and allowing you to perform more work/not get tired as fast and even preserve some of your muscle mass.

I would recommend that you begin taking BCAA’s, as they will help you maintain your muscle mass with all that running you do. Definitely take them before you run, afterwards, as well as immediately post-workout.

The only other product I would suggest you look into, is a QUALITY protein supplement. You really need to be sure that you’re getting adequate nutrition, or you’ll waste away and lose plenty of strength and mass with that much running. I would personally look into utilizing Metabolic Drive in your post-workout and post-run meals, when it’s crucial to get those nutrients into your system ASAP.

Hope that helps. =o)

Olesya

To echo what the others have said get plenty of calories in to fuel the huge volume of endurance work you are doing and to ward of muscle loss. Metabolic Drive Complete, BCAA’s, Flameout, Surge. I also recommend keeping Testosterone levels high with REZ-V and cycles of either TRIBEX or Alpha Male. I have heard Carbolin 19 helps increase cardio endurance.

D

Definately be sure to eat a lot. The best part about being a body builder who isn’t scared of lots of cardio is that you can eat like a fat ass.

Your supps do look good so far, you might want to consider adding a glucosamine/chondroiten supplement. That much running can really wear your joints out.

Drink lots of water and try an electrolyte mix.

The human body copes with running 6-16 miles a day by economizing the load. That means the less muscle it has to maintain and haul around the better. You are fighting evolution and you cannot have it both ways no matter how much money you dump on supplements. You have to decide if you want to be a serious long distance runner or gain mass and strength.

[quote]JRT6 wrote:
The human body copes with running 6-16 miles a day by economizing the load. That means the less muscle it has to maintain and haul around the better. You are fighting evolution and you cannot have it both ways no matter how much money you dump on supplements. You have to decide if you want to be a serious long distance runner or gain mass and strength. [/quote]

“The human body copes with running 6-16 miles a day by economizing the load.”

Unless you are eating enough that your body doesn’t need to “economize” and are lifting frequently and with enough intensity to continue stimulating muscle growth.

Your body can do some crazy things when you prep it properly.

All combined, most NFL players probably run close to that amount in training and most of them are over 200 with ample amounts of lean mass.

They also eat shitloads of food and probably supplement quite a bit.

I’m in a very similar situation, BCAAs, Surge style recovery drinks and a good weight gainer help as well as ALOT of food! i have managed to nail this supplement protocol recently and have put on some quality mass.

One thing that is more essential than the supplements are planned rest weeks, usually every couple of months, as well as at least one rest day a week. the supplements wont work with out the recovery time!!

I seriuosly doubt nfl players are running 6 -16 miles a day, and almost sure of it if you take away wide receivers. The times that they may come close to this is during training camp for a month to a month and half.

Why are you going to the gym after your workouts? Your accomplishing very little by doing this. As you said your body is shot so your training is shot. Switch your gym time to the morning?

What kind of runner are you that you have to run 6 - 16 miles a day? Only runners I’ve seen that are running that much are Marathoners and Ultra Marathon. Maybe I need to reassess you said 6 - 16 miles a day, is that Every day?

Exercising can be fun, but having fun and accomplishing goals are 2 different things how have you improved since doing this 6 - 16 miles a day?

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
I seriuosly doubt nfl players are running 6 -16 miles a day, and almost sure of it if you take away wide receivers. The times that they may come close to this is during training camp for a month to a month and half.

Why are you going to the gym after your workouts? Your accomplishing very little by doing this. As you said your body is shot so your training is shot. Switch your gym time to the morning?

What kind of runner are you that you have to run 6 - 16 miles a day? Only runners I’ve seen that are running that much are Marathoners and Ultra Marathon. Maybe I need to reassess you said 6 - 16 miles a day, is that Every day?

Exercising can be fun, but having fun and accomplishing goals are 2 different things how have you improved since doing this 6 - 16 miles a day?[/quote]

I agree with this, if you can split the weights and runs, A friend of mine does as you do going to the gym after a run and he permanently ill, I try to split the sessions even managing separate days the majority of the time having designated running days and designated weights days with light days and 1 day off a week.

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
I seriuosly doubt nfl players are running 6 -16 miles a day, and almost sure of it if you take away wide receivers. The times that they may come close to this is during training camp for a month to a month and half.

Why are you going to the gym after your workouts? Your accomplishing very little by doing this. As you said your body is shot so your training is shot. Switch your gym time to the morning?

What kind of runner are you that you have to run 6 - 16 miles a day? Only runners I’ve seen that are running that much are Marathoners and Ultra Marathon. Maybe I need to reassess you said 6 - 16 miles a day, is that Every day?

Exercising can be fun, but having fun and accomplishing goals are 2 different things how have you improved since doing this 6 - 16 miles a day?[/quote]

I perform quite a bit of cardio and weight train as well. My gains are fine. I eat like a fat ass, make sure to consume tons of protein and have no problem gaining size and strength while achieving cardio goals as well.

The two goals can be attained together and they are by many people, especially athletes in sports that require excellent cardio and strength conditioning.

In high school football, it isn’t uncommon to start practice with a 2 mile run and then spend the next 3 hours on straight cardio, whether it be through specific wind sprints, drills, play throughs etc. You are constantly running for the three hours you practice. 3 hours of cardio five days a week is an awful lot and high school athletes grow like weeds.

I can only imagine the pros train harder.

How much cardio would you say you perform?

It is always funny to me to hear people talk about how cardio kills muscle growth when they have never really done much of it.(you can now make up a story about a failed cardio/weight training plan if you’d like, but you are full of shit. Anybody who has tried it knows you can do it. Unless you just ate like a retard.)

“but I read a study that alluded to some theories…”

Hit the track. Eat more to make up for burned calories. You’ll be fine. Your body have no need to “economize” as long as it is getting enough nutrients.

It only burns muscle when you work it harder than you nurture it.

Same as weight training and under eating.

You can have great work outs at the gym after cardio if you are in decent enough shape. In fact you can have better lifts with an improved cardiovascular system/energy level.

People who train their bodies to work hard enough to perform cardio and weight training don’t get tired after running and have enough energy to put in an intense weight training routine after a small break and protein filled snack.

A guy who does maybe 5 lifts per weight training session would get tired much more quickly than a guy who does 12-15 lifts because his body hasn’t adapted to the work load. It’s the same thing.

Some people lift for an hour, ignore their bellies and call themselves hard core.

I think you are just being a pussy and should quit giving this guy bad advice. If he can gain while running, he’s in better physical shape than you and should keep it up.

[quote]texasguy1 wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
I perform quite a bit of cardio and weight train as well.
[/quote]
Quite a bit? OP says he does 6 - 16 miles a day? What the fuck is quite a bit? a mile here a mile there? Thats nothing compared to 6 - 16 miles a day.

I’m glad your happy with your gains, but I think there are other ways to be a famous world class athlete like you. When I saw you competing for that heisman last year I thought it was genetics not your great training routine.

In high school football, it isn’t uncommon to start

practice with a 2 mile run and then spend the next 3 hours on straight cardio, whether it be through specific wind sprints, drills, play throughs etc. You are constantly running for the three hours you practice. 3 hours of cardio five days a week is an awful lot and high school athletes grow like weeds.

Your imagination seems to run wild across this site. Your saying a 2 mile run like its great. Thats easy… Thats what 20 minutes tops? then you have another 3 hours of sprints where you stop and wait for the next group to go, shuffles where you stop and wait for the next group to go, drills where you learn your position then run 10 - 40 yards. This does not equate to 16 miles. Not even close.

On top of that your doing this for what? July and August? 2 months out the year? And the magical highschool you went to none of the athletes lost weight? All of them just gain more muscle and got stronger. Thinking this yeah you can imagine the pros train harder all you want.

Why does that matter you never said how much you do?
But I do about 15 miles a week plus about 6 hours of basketball. Its enough cardio, and yes I can gain weight but much slower then when I’m not doing it. And that is still nowhere near close to 6-16 miles a day.

Make up a story…nahh…site a study…nah. Just uncommon to you common sense that 16 miles a day running hasn’t helped anybody perform better at their sport but Marathon runners. Find one person besides you that disagrees.

Then you can find one person whose ever done this and actually accomplished something.

lol anybody is allowed to hit the track. I’m assuming this athlete is trying to actually do something and do it better at the track. What do you run a mile In 5 minutes? 4.4 40? 36 inch vertical? Anything in the world that would reflect your reasoning for running 10 miles a day?

Thats great how you said he can do all of that but preceded everything with an IF. I think deep in the incredibly dense skull, you don’t even believe the stupid shit your typing.

I guess this is proof anybody can make a highschool team.

I should have clarified earlier that my lifting supplements my running, not the other way around. I do not lift for gains in size and mass. I do it so I can hammer through runs and that I’ll have the strength to drop some more time off of my races.

I also happen to love lifting, but in a sense, I’m not “allowed” to gain mass from working out because the increase in weight would absolutely slow me down.

To clear up some posts: I’m not a marathon runner but I have competed in several half marathons. I am NOT running 16 miles a day, but only on one day a week - my long run. Most other days I’m doing anywhere from 6-13.

I have been weight-training, although not as seriously as I am now, for 3 years now to help improve my track times. Without lifting I feel that my quarter mile, half mile, and mile times would not be anywhere what they are now due to the immense gains in strength that help propel me through the last half of my race and down the straightaway to the finish line.

I’ve always been interested in supplements because everyone wants another edge up on the competition and if these supplements can help me train faster and harder, then I’ll be able to perform to win when I need to.

I gotta say I am kind of jealous of not just the supplements, but also the information available these days. I ran middle distance competitively back in what seems like the dark ages of the early and mid 90s. Dropped the 400 when I moved up to college though as I was more of an 800/miler. If I had the information and products (and money) back then that I do now here is what I would probably use from Biotest:

-Surge
-Creatine
-BETA-7
-Flameout
-Spike

Good luck with your training.

I agree with most of what the others said, but have you considered that the problem may not be your supplements but your schedule? Lifting weights after a distance run really isn’t the optimal time. Simply rearranging your schedule to say alternate days for example could make a huge difference in your gym performance.

Since running is my main focus, I have to make sure that every run I do is quality and not compromised. I lift Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I have tried lifting in the morning and running in the afternoon but my body did not respond to that method. The best way I have found is running then lifting afterwards, and since running is my priority I need to make sure I get the quality miles in.

Airtruth had good replies. I sure wasn’t going to bother but since he got the ball rolling, I’ll add this from personal experience. Thinking that conditioning football players do a day is adding up to 6 miles is a comment made by someone who never played football. Even if it did, it’s not LSD it’s interval training which is much more taxing. Can you imagine doing 6 miles of balls out interval running?

Every year in football I lost 20lbs no matter how much I ate and slept. Go to any college or pro team pickout a player and compare his listed weight with his actuall weight. Everyone but the kicker looses size and strength from the bigging of camp.