Rumsfeld Stepping Down?

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
On Nov. 4, 2006, in an unprecedented editorial, the Military Times (Marine Corps Times, Navy Times, etc) called for Rumsfeld to step down.

This is not about the midterm elections. Regardless of which party wins Nov. 7, the time has come, Mr. President, to face the hard bruising truth:

Donald Rumsfeld must go.[/b]

As someone who had read the Marine Corps Times for 4 years straight I put no reliablity in anything that comes out of that “newspaper”. The writing is atrocious and the people are morons. That said, I just could never NOT buy it. The cover story always seemed so cool to an 18-22 year old me. Then you discover that you’ve learned nothing.

That said, I really dislike how the war is going though I am a large proponent of it. Not having Rumsfeld is going to make things worse. There are an extra thousand men alive today thanks to doctrines he pressed that made the bulky and lethargic army a lighter and more agile force. This saved MANY lives during the push. Rummy is a patriot and a man of character. I’m glad to see him resign to avoid the democratic witch hunt that had him first on the hit list.

Also, for those of you that think this is a good move; consider his replacement. At a time when we are crying about poor treatment of prisoners, torture and secret prisons we remove Rummy and put in a guy that headed the CIA?! WTF?! I’m sure the CIA is completely devoid of shady characters.

If Rummy had to go, we should have iced off Schwartzkoff or something. He knows how to kick a little ass and has something of a record in the area. We at least could have put a general or a military historian in the slot. (Victor Davis Hanson comes to mind)

mike[/quote]

It’s not written by soldiers – all those paper are owned by the same company that runs USA Today, and the writers and editors are just normal writers and editors.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
On Nov. 4, 2006, in an unprecedented editorial, the Military Times (Marine Corps Times, Navy Times, etc) called for Rumsfeld to step down.

This is not about the midterm elections. Regardless of which party wins Nov. 7, the time has come, Mr. President, to face the hard bruising truth:

Donald Rumsfeld must go.[/b]

As someone who had read the Marine Corps Times for 4 years straight I put no reliablity in anything that comes out of that “newspaper”. The writing is atrocious and the people are morons. That said, I just could never NOT buy it. The cover story always seemed so cool to an 18-22 year old me. Then you discover that you’ve learned nothing.

That said, I really dislike how the war is going though I am a large proponent of it. Not having Rumsfeld is going to make things worse. There are an extra thousand men alive today thanks to doctrines he pressed that made the bulky and lethargic army a lighter and more agile force. This saved MANY lives during the push. Rummy is a patriot and a man of character. I’m glad to see him resign to avoid the democratic witch hunt that had him first on the hit list.

Also, for those of you that think this is a good move; consider his replacement. At a time when we are crying about poor treatment of prisoners, torture and secret prisons we remove Rummy and put in a guy that headed the CIA?! WTF?! I’m sure the CIA is completely devoid of shady characters.

If Rummy had to go, we should have iced off Schwartzkoff or something. He knows how to kick a little ass and has something of a record in the area. We at least could have put a general or a military historian in the slot. (Victor Davis Hanson comes to mind)

mike

It’s not written by soldiers – all those paper are owned by the same company that runs USA Today, and the writers and editors are just normal writers and editors.[/quote]

Yes, but they listen to their rank and file readership. In a poll in February, two months after Gen. Abizaid indicated that the insurgency is only in 4 of 18 provinces and things are “going well” in the remaining 14, a total of 49% of respondents indicated that they believed the overall competence of the civilian leadership of the Office of the Secretary (i.e., Rumsfeld) is either “poor” or “awful”.

http://armytimes.com/content/editorial/pdf/022406_commandclimate_survey.pdf

It is telling that a paper that is known for insubstantial reporting decided to stand up and take a position on an issue of such consequence. It is also telling that two days later Bush agreed with their position.

[quote]Loose Tool wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
On Nov. 4, 2006, in an unprecedented editorial, the Military Times (Marine Corps Times, Navy Times, etc) called for Rumsfeld to step down.

This is not about the midterm elections. Regardless of which party wins Nov. 7, the time has come, Mr. President, to face the hard bruising truth:

Donald Rumsfeld must go.[/b]

As someone who had read the Marine Corps Times for 4 years straight I put no reliablity in anything that comes out of that “newspaper”. The writing is atrocious and the people are morons. That said, I just could never NOT buy it. The cover story always seemed so cool to an 18-22 year old me. Then you discover that you’ve learned nothing.

That said, I really dislike how the war is going though I am a large proponent of it. Not having Rumsfeld is going to make things worse. There are an extra thousand men alive today thanks to doctrines he pressed that made the bulky and lethargic army a lighter and more agile force. This saved MANY lives during the push. Rummy is a patriot and a man of character. I’m glad to see him resign to avoid the democratic witch hunt that had him first on the hit list.

Also, for those of you that think this is a good move; consider his replacement. At a time when we are crying about poor treatment of prisoners, torture and secret prisons we remove Rummy and put in a guy that headed the CIA?! WTF?! I’m sure the CIA is completely devoid of shady characters.

If Rummy had to go, we should have iced off Schwartzkoff or something. He knows how to kick a little ass and has something of a record in the area. We at least could have put a general or a military historian in the slot. (Victor Davis Hanson comes to mind)

mike

It’s not written by soldiers – all those paper are owned by the same company that runs USA Today, and the writers and editors are just normal writers and editors.

Yes, but they listen to their rank and file readership. In a poll in February, two months after Gen. Abizaid indicated that the insurgency is only in 4 of 18 provinces and things are “going well” in the remaining 14, a total of 49% of respondents indicated that they believed the overall competence of the civilian leadership of the Office of the Secretary (i.e., Rumsfeld) is either “poor” or “awful”.

http://armytimes.com/content/editorial/pdf/022406_commandclimate_survey.pdf

They listen to their rank and file? 1/3 of the respondants were officers, 1/5 were field grade. The remainder were NCOs and mostly staff ones at that. What ever happened to vast majority of the military, the privates to lance corporals? Only 1/3 were outside CONUS and less than 1/3 had more than a year in a combat zone in the last ten years. This is during a time of war when guys are doing 2-4 deployments. Hell army guys do 18 month deployments. Marines are doing multiple 6-8 month deployments. So we’re asking senior military, an exceptional high amount of officers (which are politicians that wear a uniform) with a woeful lack of combat experience. The quality and scope of this survey is commensurate with the quality of reporting that rag pushes out.

All this said, I bet you would be rather hard pressed to EVER find a serving soldier/airman/sailor/Marine to say that his chain of command isn’t full of a bunch of idiots. I will at least give you that.

mike

This is the only good news coming out yesterday. He should have been gone a long time ago.
Now the dems are in control, don’t expect to leave Iraq anytime soon. Just like with the Reps. Everybody knows you can’t just pull out. If we do we’ll be back bombing the shit out of it again in a year to kill off the insugent government that took over.
The Reps had their chanced and fucked it up in everyway possible. They deserved yesterday, maybe they will wake the fuck up so we don’t have a socialist, hand out giving, amnesty dolling, babykilling, communist regime in two branches of government. I figure people will be sick of the dems in two years, but we need the libritarians to take advantage of the situation. A correct thinking third party would be nice for a change.

Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Too bad it took so long.

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
On Nov. 4, 2006, in an unprecedented editorial, the Military Times (Marine Corps Times, Navy Times, etc) called for Rumsfeld to step down.

This is not about the midterm elections. Regardless of which party wins Nov. 7, the time has come, Mr. President, to face the hard bruising truth:

Donald Rumsfeld must go.[/b]

As someone who had read the Marine Corps Times for 4 years straight I put no reliablity in anything that comes out of that “newspaper”. The writing is atrocious and the people are morons. That said, I just could never NOT buy it. The cover story always seemed so cool to an 18-22 year old me. Then you discover that you’ve learned nothing.

That said, I really dislike how the war is going though I am a large proponent of it. Not having Rumsfeld is going to make things worse. There are an extra thousand men alive today thanks to doctrines he pressed that made the bulky and lethargic army a lighter and more agile force. This saved MANY lives during the push. Rummy is a patriot and a man of character. I’m glad to see him resign to avoid the democratic witch hunt that had him first on the hit list.

Also, for those of you that think this is a good move; consider his replacement. At a time when we are crying about poor treatment of prisoners, torture and secret prisons we remove Rummy and put in a guy that headed the CIA?! WTF?! I’m sure the CIA is completely devoid of shady characters.

If Rummy had to go, we should have iced off Schwartzkoff or something. He knows how to kick a little ass and has something of a record in the area. We at least could have put a general or a military historian in the slot. (Victor Davis Hanson comes to mind)

mike

It’s not written by soldiers – all those paper are owned by the same company that runs USA Today, and the writers and editors are just normal writers and editors.

Yes, but they listen to their rank and file readership. In a poll in February, two months after Gen. Abizaid indicated that the insurgency is only in 4 of 18 provinces and things are “going well” in the remaining 14, a total of 49% of respondents indicated that they believed the overall competence of the civilian leadership of the Office of the Secretary (i.e., Rumsfeld) is either “poor” or “awful”.

http://armytimes.com/content/editorial/pdf/022406_commandclimate_survey.pdf

It is telling that a paper that is known for insubstantial reporting decided to stand up and take a position on an issue of such consequence. It is also telling that two days later Bush agreed with their position.

[/quote]

They listen to their rank and file? 1/3 of the respondants were officers, 1/5 were field grade. The remainder were NCOs and mostly staff ones at that. What ever happened to vast majority of the military, the privates to lance corporals? Only 1/3 were outside CONUS and less than 1/3 had more than a year in a combat zone in the last ten years. This is during a time of war when guys are doing 2-4 deployments. Hell army guys do 18 month deployments. Marines are doing multiple 6-8 month deployments. So we’re asking senior military, an exceptional high amount of officers (which are politicians that wear a uniform) with a woeful lack of combat experience. The quality and scope of this survey is commensurate with the quality of reporting that rag pushes out.

All this said, I bet you would be rather hard pressed to EVER find a serving soldier/airman/sailor/Marine to say that his chain of command isn’t full of a bunch of idiots. I will at least give you that.

mike

When I was a private, I was hard pressed to remember my chain of command, let alone have an opinion as to the competence of the Secretary of Defense (at the time it was Harold Brown). I was way more interested in reading Soldier of Fortune than US News & World Report.

Not just office pogues agree with the change…

PRESS RELEASE
Wednesday, November 8, 2006

Iraq Veterans Applaud Decision to Replace Sec. Rumsfeld

NEW YORK - The nation’s first and largest non-partisan organization representing veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, IAVA, released the following statement from Executive Director Paul Rieckhoff in response to the resignation of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld:

“This is welcome news for our troops and veterans who have been paying the price for Secretary Rumsfeld’s failures,” said Paul Rieckhoff, an Iraq War veteran and the executive director of IAVA. “The replacement of Donald Rumsfeld is one step down the very long road to correct the mistakes made in Iraq over the past three years.”

IAVA: Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, represents more than 60,000 members in all 50 states. For more information, visit

This is an excerpt from todays NYT:

Marines Get the News From an Iraqi Host: Rumsfeld’s Out. “Who’s Rumsfeld”?

The marines had been on a continuous foot patrol for several days, hunting for insurgents. They were lost in the hard and isolating rhythms of infantry life.

They knew nothing of the week’s news.

Now they were being told by an Iraqi whose house they occupied that Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, one of the principal architects of the policies that had them here, had resigned. “Rumsfeld is gone?” the sergeant asked. “Really?”

Mr. Menti nodded. “This is better for Iraq,” he said. “Iraqi people say thank you.”

The sergeant went upstairs to tell his marines, just as he had informed them the day before that the Republican Party had lost control of the House of Representatives and that Congress was in the midst of sweeping change. Mr. Menti had told them that, too.

“Rumsfeld’s out,” he said to five marines sprawled with rifles on the cold floor.

Lance Cpl. James L. Davis Jr. looked up from his cigarette. “Who’s Rumsfeld?” he asked.

[quote]Brad61 wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
From Austin Bay – I agree with points 1 and 3 – 2 is interesting speculation…

http://austinbay.net/blog/?p=1520

Well he’s not that astute if he thinks that Connecticut elected Lieberman based on his Iraq position. Excuse me, but that contradicts the conventional wisdom that the election nationwide was a referendum on Iraq (anger about Iraq). If that’s true then Connecticut wouldn’t be any different.

Fact is that Lieberman won because Lamont has no experience, and Lieberman has a liberal/moderate track record on most issues, and that’s what Democrats want.

Off topic but deserves mention.

Anyway, looks like Rumsfeld’s replacement is yet another holdover from the Iran Contra scandal. Wow, what a deep bench you guys have to draw from.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Gates[/quote]

Exactly. Gates is part of Iran/Contra. How much you wanna bet the Dems don’t confirm Gates and Lieberman becomes Sec of Def.

Woodward: Lieberman Was Considered For Bush Defense Secretary
Woodward writes of chief of staff Andrew Card: "Card had the names of 11 possible Rumsfeld replacements in his ‘hit-by-the-bus’ book, among them Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman (D-Conn.)
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2006/oct/02/ct_sen_woodward_lieberman_was_considered_for_defense_secretary

[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
Brad61 wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
From Austin Bay – I agree with points 1 and 3 – 2 is interesting speculation…

http://austinbay.net/blog/?p=1520

Well he’s not that astute if he thinks that Connecticut elected Lieberman based on his Iraq position. Excuse me, but that contradicts the conventional wisdom that the election nationwide was a referendum on Iraq (anger about Iraq). If that’s true then Connecticut wouldn’t be any different.

Fact is that Lieberman won because Lamont has no experience, and Lieberman has a liberal/moderate track record on most issues, and that’s what Democrats want.

Off topic but deserves mention.

Anyway, looks like Rumsfeld’s replacement is yet another holdover from the Iran Contra scandal. Wow, what a deep bench you guys have to draw from.

Exactly. Gates is part of Iran/Contra. How much you wanna bet the Dems don’t confirm Gates and Lieberman becomes Sec of Def.

Woodward: Lieberman Was Considered For Bush Defense Secretary
Woodward writes of chief of staff Andrew Card: "Card had the names of 11 possible Rumsfeld replacements in his ‘hit-by-the-bus’ book, among them Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman (D-Conn.)
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2006/oct/02/ct_sen_woodward_lieberman_was_considered_for_defense_secretary
[/quote]

Not only was he part of Iran-Contra but also a part of The October Surprise Operation and rumored CIA drug smuggling.

No one should be surprised as the people who are put in key positions of gov. and military are there to keep the lid on scandals. If they were not directly involved chances are they are very close to someone who was.

Lets face it. Rummy is just the fall guy for everybody else’s mistakes. Mr. President should not have waited until after the elections to give him the AXE! If Rummy truly deserved to go, it should have been done quite a while ago.

I don’t know if I agree that this will make things worse. However, Nancy Pelosi in my opinion will definitely make things worse for America. Just look at her track record! Do you honestly believe she is gonna move from left to center on anything? I’m no political genius by any stretch of the imagination but I think we’re gonna have two years of gridlock.

This country is in serious trouble. If the Blue Dogs don’t step up to the plate and show some Moxy we’ll soon see another terrorist attack. Anyone interested in hearing the hard truths that the drive by media won’t report to you, go to www.newt.org Thats is all