Rugby/Lifiting Program Critique

deanosumo wrote:
Actually sitting down and reading the rules of the game, or watching some videos, could improve a player’s rugby immensely, in a short time.

[/quote]

I wholeheartedly agree with this especially if you are new to the game. I used to watch tapes of Josh Kronfeld and the lines he ran and his positional play it helped a lot.

I have played with a couple of Canadian guys - they were always big, strong and fit but they hadn’t started playing till late. They tended to not read the play as well or automatically do the theings Aussie and Kiwi guys did instinctively and out of habit because we had grown up with the game. Study the game and think about it - it can help get you that one step ahead

[quote]deanosumo wrote:
bg100 wrote:
deanosumo wrote:
Perhaps I should have said ‘Strength is only ONE component of successful rugby’. I make my living coaching the sport, and of course have my players lift, but it’s not the be all and end-all. Especially regarding American rugby, size and strength is generally very good, but overall skill levels, and knowledge, and general rugby sense, is really lacking. Improvements in these areas, and in conditioning, will lead to much faster improvements in players, than an over focusing on strength.Think how much time it takes to increase your overall strength by even a few percent. One hard run can improve fitness by 10%. Actually sitting down and reading the rules of the game, or watching some videos, could improve a player’s rugby immensely, in a short time.
[/quote]

I think we are on the same page, but saying the same thing in different ways. I agree with you that there is definitely a huge advantage that Aussie, Kiwis etc have over Americans in terms of knowledge of the game and just knowing what to do instinctively because that’s the game we played as kids growing up. It would be the same thing for them with gridiron and baseball.

I guess I am slightly biased towards the strength and size improvement thing because when I played rugby as a 20y.o. I was about 85kg and played as a backrower. This was in the Sydney surburban rugby competition so I was up against a lot of men at their strength peak of 28-30 y.o. Nine years later I am 95kg (thanks T-Nation!) and I just know I would have been able to do a lot better even with the same skill level.

I think the original poster said he hadn’t played rugby before, so he is going to get a bit of a shock at how physically demanding it is. The more strength, size and conditioning he has now the better.

Cheers,

Ben

[quote]bg100 wrote:
W.F.Call78 wrote:
You might not think so, but playing in the pack often requires more aerobic endurance than being a back. Moving in and out of rucks and mauls continuously is very aerobic. Hence my recommendation to do some longer, slower runs.
Hope this helps.

I must respectfully disagree with this point. I agree that building up a long distance conditioning base early in the off season is important, but when you really analyse a game it is still very much an “interval” type of game with all the brief breaks such as lineouts and scrums. Therefore the longer sprints of 200-400m are of the most benefit for conditioning, along with short sprints to help with speed and acceleration.

A lot of strongman stuff would be beneficial as well, because it replicates performing feats of strength whilst really challenging the cardio system.

I think the only positions on the field that really need top long distance cardio conditioning are the flankers and the scrum half because they have to be first to the rucks all the time.[/quote]

I’m not trying to split hairs and start an internet pissing contest, but here’s how I see it. While it is interval based, I have yet to see or play against many people (in the US, England, Ireland, or France) that could consistently “sprint” from ruck to ruck. Also, even if you run (for example) 60-90 second 400m sprints, resting 90 seconds between them for 5 iterations (a brutal conditioning session, if you ask me), you’re only looking at keeping your heart rate elevated for 15 minutes. In a game with 40 minute non-stop halves, I don’t think this represents enough work capacity. I do agree that the interval work should be prioritized.

I agree on the strongman comment, especially for lifting jumpers in lineouts and scrumming. The scrum sled does look almost like some crazy strongman implement.

Ideally, the scrum half and flankers should be the first to every ruck. But I can’t count how many times a prop, hooker, or lock is the first one there. Also, a forward moving from a ruck to the backline on the wings would be a good example of more cardio.

Again, not trying to start an argument, just trying to get as much info out there as possible.

Hey hey…just to weigh in, in the book “Complete Conditioning for Rugby” by England winger Dan Luger and Wasps (?) fitness coach Paul Pook, the concept of “fuel mix” conditioning. Meaning while you’re not going to sprint from ruck to ruck as a back rower, you need to have a a high cruising speed with the ability to sprint when needed and use explosinve strength when needed.

Check the book out, it really outlines so much of what type of conditionning is needed at various levels in today’s game.

And as a first year player, you can’t work on skills enough…

Have fun

[quote]W.F.Call78 wrote:

I’m not trying to split hairs and start an internet pissing contest, but here’s how I see it. While it is interval based, I have yet to see or play against many people (in the US, England, Ireland, or France) that could consistently “sprint” from ruck to ruck. Also, even if you run (for example) 60-90 second 400m sprints, resting 90 seconds between them for 5 iterations (a brutal conditioning session, if you ask me), you’re only looking at keeping your heart rate elevated for 15 minutes. In a game with 40 minute non-stop halves, I don’t think this represents enough work capacity. I do agree that the interval work should be prioritized.

I agree on the strongman comment, especially for lifting jumpers in lineouts and scrumming. The scrum sled does look almost like some crazy strongman implement.

Ideally, the scrum half and flankers should be the first to every ruck. But I can’t count how many times a prop, hooker, or lock is the first one there. Also, a forward moving from a ruck to the backline on the wings would be a good example of more cardio.

Again, not trying to start an argument, just trying to get as much info out there as possible.[/quote]

That’s cool, I’m not arguing, but I am interested in what other people think on the topic of rugby training.

I do agree with the your statement that not all rugby is just sprinting. I guess I forgot to mention one key reason for doing interval training, and that is interval training has been proven to produce the same, if not more, gains in fitness as a long distance cardio session, but in much less time. Using you example, if you go and run 5 x 400m sprints that’s 2km at high (>80%) intensity. Now a 2km slow jog would take maybe 10 minutes, not really enough to generate a big improvement in fitness, but I know how I’d feel after 5x400’s!

An equivalent in weight training would be the 10x3 vs 3x10 argument. 10x3 is more intense and produces greater size and strength gains over the same number of reps.

I do not disagree with needing to do longer distance stuff in the early pre-season, but I think when it comes to playing games you don’t want to waste away all your hard earned muscle with long, slow distance running. Because you have to back off on the weights during the season you need to preserve strength as much as possible. I like CT’s comments in his Running Man article about 400m sprints, he said that he found his ice hockey players got a lot stronger by doing these runs. I reckon ice hockey players would need similar fitness requirements to rugby players, sprints followed by some periods of less intense skating, so if it works with them it should work for rugby.

Cheers,

Ben

Another point: it would be worth doing a lot of single leg work. It is rare in rugby to be using equal force on both sides of your body. Check out Ian King’s work. I believe he was strength & conditioning coach for the Wallabies when they won the world cup. Might even be worth getting his ‘Get Buffed’ book. (I have avoided doing the sample program in it because it looks too hard!)

[quote]sharetrader wrote:
Another point: it would be worth doing a lot of single leg work. It is rare in rugby to be using equal force on both sides of your body. Check out Ian King’s work. I believe he was strength & conditioning coach for the Wallabies when they won the world cup. Might even be worth getting his ‘Get Buffed’ book. (I have avoided doing the sample program in it because it looks too hard!)[/quote]

Great advice here, that’s why I reckon the strong man stuff would be very important, especially sandbag lifts, because they introduce instability. In the rucks and mauls you often have to apply force when in unusual or non-optimal positions for doing so.

Such awesome advice, thanks to everyone. I started doing power exercises again (cleans, push press, snatch etc.), did some plyos as well, those two combined are a ton of fun. Ran a little after practice today, but was really spent.

I don’t have any access to strongman gear, I live in the dorms, and I don’t know the area very well. What are good substitutions for those exercises? I know I won’t be able to simulate them completely, but I want to get as close as possible.

I did start reading the rules more, and I’m learning a lot, thanks for that advice. Do you know where I could get some footage of a game? I saw a couple Aussie games, but that doesn’t help at all.

Thanks again

-K

Single leg squats, single leg calf raise (seated or standing), side lunges, renegade lunges (similar to side lunge, but you have to get under a bar as well), single leg back extension, single leg stiff leg deadlift, single leg good morning, single leg bent leg deadlift, suitcase lift.

That should be enough to get you started.

Oh, and farmers walk/waiters walk. And car pushing.