T Nation

Rudy Giuliani: Urban Legend


Firefighters Rip Giuliani, Call Him ‘Urban Legend’
New DVD Criticizes Former NYC Mayor
Giuliani’s Campaign Calls Video ‘Mockumentary’

CBS) NEW YORK The International Association of Firefighters has gone on the offensive against “America’s Mayor” Rudy Giuliani, releasing a 13-minute video that viciously rips into the former New York mayor, who has been using his leadership demonstrated on September 11th to urge people around the country to support him in his quest to become President of the United States.

The video, released early Wednesday evening, is titled “Rudy Giuliani: Urban Legend,” and offers testimonials from various members of the organization and family members of firefighters lost in the terror attacks.

�??We have the remains of dead heroes at the garbage dump because of Giuliani and his administration and they�??re still there today and they won�??t remove them,�?? claims FDNY Deputy Chief Jim Riches on the DVD, which was released to CBS 2 HD before its public debut.

Giuliani’s campaign denounced the video, saying that the former mayor had a long history of supporting firefighters’ health and safety and that the international union releasing the video only supports Democratic presidential candidates.

�??Whenever I hear him talk, I want to scream out to the world and say God he�??s so full of it,�?? adds Rosaleen Tallon, who lost her brother in the attacks.

Tallon is one of several people who lost loved ones and speaks out against Giuliani.

�??I�??m a conservative. I�??m a member of the NRA, I voted for Giuliani, but in this instance he messed up,�?? says Al Regenhard, whose son was killed.

Those quotes are just the beginning of the video in which firefighters attempt to set the record straight about how they view Giuliani and his leadership on that tragic day.

�??This image of Rudy Giuliani as ‘America’s Mayor’ is a myth,�?? says President of Uniformed Firefighters Union, Steve Cassidy in the DVD.

The video raises many questions about the former mayor, including why firefighters used obsolete radios on September 11th that may have added to the death toll, why the search for human remains was suddenly stopped after a lost shipment of bank gold was recovered and why the emergency management bunker was on the edge of ground zero.

The firefighters say they want America to hear and see their take on the former mayor

�??When America knows the decisions he made pre 9-11 and then on 9-11, I don�??t think they’ll ever support him for president,�?? Cassidy adds.

Calling the video a “mockumentary,” Giuliani campaign spokesman Michael McKeon said, “The union leadership makes Michael Moore look like Edward R. Murrow.”

Former New York firefighter Lee Ielpi, whose son died on Sept. 11, and former Office of Emergency Management Commissioner Richard Sheirer appeared with McKeon, calling the video full of “half-truths.”

“I was there. I saw it. I experienced it,” said Ielpi, who worked at ground zero for the nine-month cleanup. “I’m not going to let lies like this go.”

Despite criticism from the Giuliani camp that he is a partisan Democrat, the general president of the International Association of Fire Fighters, Harold Schaitberger, said that Giuliani is opposed by firefighters on both sides of the aisle.

“Giuliani’s biggest problem is that this video is a bipartisan condemnation of his record on 9/11,” Schaitberger said.

The 13-minute video was being distributed to the union’s 280,000 members, to the media and online.

Still, it’s too soon to assess the political fallout from the video – it will all depend on how many people view it and take it seriously.

Must-see video. Lets the firefighters speak for themselves and explain their gripes.

There’s also a new book about Giuliani, too:
“Grand Illusion: The Untold Story of Rudy Giuliani and 9/11”

(Remember how Rudy wanted to cancel the mayoral election in NYC, after 9/11? Rudy wanted to stay in office indefinitely. What a wackjob!)

I was reading an article on how the cadidates are doing, Rudy is down in popularity, running even with Fred Thompson who has yet to declare.

Then again I think Rudy is a fraud who knows as much about foreign policy as I do about quantum physics.

Whoa, that’s going to get Jeffro’s panties all twisted up. He must be waiting to hear from HQ on what the official spin is going to be. Can’t wait to read about how horrible all those liberal commie fire fighters are.

Let 'er fly, jeffie!

My pals!!!

After some serious soul searching, I’ve decided to switch from the guy who cleaned up New York and inspired a nation, to the only real candidate out there: hillary rodham clinton.

She’s the real deal. A proven leader who has many legislative accomplishments to hang her hat on. Additionally, she sticks by her principles if she feels they are right. She’s morally strong. Most people like her. As an added bonus, we can have bill clinton back too.

So don’t expect me to stick up for Rudy, when the rodham express is available!!!

JeffR

[quote]bradley wrote:
[

(Remember how Rudy wanted to cancel the mayoral election in NYC, after 9/11? Rudy wanted to stay in office indefinitely. What a wackjob!)[/quote]

Sweet little bradley.

Ok, everyone. I want you to pay close attention to this last bradley comment.

I want to make sure to extinguish any remaining embers of bradleyism on this site. I know the majority of the regulars don’t pay any attention to bradley. They certainly don’t give any credence to his commentary. However, just to be sure, I want to rub his nose in the moveon.org talking point garbage.

bradley is saying that Rudy is a dictator who wanted to cancel the mayoral elections for purely political gain.

THE MAYORAL ELECTION WAS SCHEDULED TO BE HELD ON 9/11/2001.

Here is what Rudy said on 9/11/01:

[quote]What is the status of the election?

GIULIANI: We cancelled it. The governor and I decided about an hour, and hour and a half ago that it made no sense to have an election today. We needed all of those police officers who were at the election sites. And we need to focus on rescue. So, we’ll find another day for the eelection. The governor and I made that decision about an hour, an hour and a half ago.[/quote]

From bradley outlet, cnn: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0109/11/bn.12.html

Second, does anyone contend that Rudy was going to lose that election?

Third, does anyone contend that his reasoning wasn’t ROCK-FREAKIN’-SOLID?!?

Fourth, were mayoral elections held later?

In summary, I probably won’t catch and respond to every lame-ass criticism that bradley and his pals will offer (I do work).

However, I want everyone to be ONE-HUNDRED-PERCENT certain that the weiner leveling these charges is an unthinking automatan.

JeffR

[quote]JeffR wrote:
GIULIANI: We cancelled it. The governor and I decided about an hour, and hour and a half ago that it made no sense to have an election today. We needed all of those police officers who were at the election sites. And we need to focus on rescue. So, we’ll find another day for the eelection. The governor and I made that decision about an hour, an hour and a half ago.[/quote]

Jeffy, your grasp on the facts is not so good. OBVIOUSLY the election scheduled for 9/11 was postponed. That’s not what I am referring to… Rudy tried to stay on as Mayor, even after his term was over. Rudy wanted to overturn the term limits, and tried to get the other candidates to sign on to a plan that would keep him on as mayor. They said NO. The election was only postponed by three weeks, and the mayors’ office changed hands like it was supposed to.

[quote]
Second, does anyone contend that Rudy was going to lose that election?[/quote]

Holy shit, Jeffy… Rudy wasn’t even running in that election, you moron. There’s a two-term limit on the NYC mayor’s office, and Rudy’s time was up. LOL!

[quote]Brad61 wrote:
JeffR wrote:
GIULIANI: We cancelled it. The governor and I decided about an hour, and hour and a half ago that it made no sense to have an election today. We needed all of those police officers who were at the election sites. And we need to focus on rescue. So, we’ll find another day for the eelection. The governor and I made that decision about an hour, an hour and a half ago.

Jeffy, your grasp on the facts is not so good. OBVIOUSLY the election scheduled for 9/11 was postponed. That’s not what I am referring to… Rudy tried to stay on as Mayor, even after his term was over. Rudy wanted to overturn the term limits, and tried to get the other candidates to sign on to a plan that would keep him on as mayor. They said NO. The election was only postponed by three weeks, and the mayors’ office changed hands like it was supposed to.

Second, does anyone contend that Rudy was going to lose that election?

Holy shit, Jeffy… Rudy wasn’t even running in that election, you moron. There’s a two-term limit on the NYC mayor’s office, and Rudy’s time was up. LOL![/quote]

bradley,

You are correct, I had forgotten that his two terms were up.

I was wrong.

However, it doesn’t change the basic fact that he wasn’t trying to be some sort of dictator.

I believe the New York Constitution has it written in that time can be extended due to emergency circumstances.

It’s pretty hard not to call that an emergency circumstance.

He said that he thought it was an emergency. The New York Senate and State Assembly didn’t agree and power was transferred on time.

Oh, I believe that both Mark Green and Bloomberg agreed that the inaugural should be postponed–March 2002 for Green.

[quote]One of the men who would be mayor, Mark Green, who has been a persistent thorn in the mayor’s side, agreed to postpone the next inaugural until March 1 because of an “urgent need for a seamless transition and the importance of a united city,” Green spokesman Joe DePlasco told the Associated Press.

Republican candidate Michael Bloomberg has also signed off on the idea of postponing the next mayoral inaugural.

“These unique circumstances justify such a nonpartisan, nontraditional approach to encourage unity and planning,” DePlasco said.[/quote]

From: http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2001/09/28/giuliani_no/index.html

JeffR

I’m sure there is a political motivation behind this. The firefighters have a bone to pick with the city now, especially Bloomberg, for all the trouble they’ve been getting into… ask these fellas why they marched LAST in the St. Patty’s Day parade this year when they’re normally right behind the Fighting 69th.

Giuliani and Bloomberg are very close politically… I’m sure Republican bashing is high on their agenda this year.

Either way, only assholes who never went to NYC can say he didn’t do a great job cleaning that city up and leading them on 9/11.

I wonder how many of you saw 42nd street in 1982… and then again in 2001. I may not agree with his national politics, but his mayoral skills are unmatched.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Either way, only assholes who never went to NYC can say he didn’t do a great job cleaning that city up and leading them on 9/11. [/quote]

You didn’t watch the video, did you…

Rudy did a “great job” on 9/11?

Was it the over-100 dead firefighters who didn’t hear the orders to evacuate, like the police did, because Rudy replaced shitty old FDP radios that didn’t work, with shitty new radios that didn’t work?

Was it Rudy running around in the dust, because the Emergency Command Center he installed in the WTC complex was inoperable?

Was it Rudy pulling rescue workers off the pile, once the bank recovered their gold? Was it the dumping of bodies into the city dump?

What the hell do you think Rudy did re: 9/11 that was so great? He showed up for work and did his job on 9/11, that’s more than Bush did. Big deal, he acted like the mayor. If he hadn’t fucked up so bad before that day, there would be more people alive today.

[quote]I may not agree with his national politics, but his mayoral skills are unmatched.
[/quote]

If you thought Rudy was a great mayor, that’s your opinion, that’s not a fact. I thought he sucked ass as mayor and I know a LOT of people who agree with my opinion. Don’t confuse opinions with facts. Watch the video, the firefighters are dealing with facts.

[quote]bradley wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Either way, only assholes who never went to NYC can say he didn’t do a great job cleaning that city up and leading them on 9/11.

You didn’t watch the video, did you…

Rudy did a “great job” on 9/11?

Was it the over-100 dead firefighters who didn’t hear the orders to evacuate, like the police did, because Rudy replaced shitty old FDP radios that didn’t work, with shitty new radios that didn’t work?

Was it Rudy running around in the dust, because the Emergency Command Center he installed in the WTC complex was inoperable?

Was it Rudy pulling rescue workers off the pile, once the bank recovered their gold? Was it the dumping of bodies into the city dump?

What the hell do you think Rudy did re: 9/11 that was so great? He showed up for work and did his job on 9/11, that’s more than Bush did. Big deal, he acted like the mayor. If he hadn’t fucked up so bad before that day, there would be more people alive today.

I may not agree with his national politics, but his mayoral skills are unmatched.

If you thought Rudy was a great mayor, that’s your opinion, that’s not a fact. I thought he sucked ass as mayor and I know a LOT of people who agree with my opinion. Don’t confuse opinions with facts. Watch the video, the firefighters are dealing with facts.

[/quote]

Irish, I don’t need to remind you that Rudy is the front-runner for the Republicans.

Therefore, bradley is throwing mud.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I agree with you, Irish, there comes a point where you can be such a success, that saying “Rudy was a great Mayor” becomes an objective statement.

It goes beyond opinion.

Oh, you can find videos showing the firefighters cheering wildly for Rudy after the attack.

Politics.

Oh, I find it amusing the same guys who were whining about the Swift Boaters, are jumping all over this.

I’m always amused by hypocrisy.

JeffR

[quote]JeffR wrote:

Irish, I don’t need to remind you that Rudy is the front-runner for the Republicans.

Therefore, bradley is throwing mud.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I agree with you, Irish, there comes a point where you can be such a success, that saying “Rudy was a great Mayor” becomes an objective statement.

It goes beyond opinion.

Oh, you can find videos showing the firefighters cheering wildly for Rudy after the attack.

Politics.

Oh, I find it amusing the same guys who were whining about the Swift Boaters, are jumping all over this.

I’m always amused by hypocrisy.

JeffR

[/quote]

Are you sure about that? Last I checked your revered Rudy was running even with a man who has not even declared his run at the presidency…

renny,

I cannot comment on polling as I would be a hypocrite.

However, I’m confident he’ll win.

JeffR

[quote]JeffR wrote:
However, I’m confident he’ll win.
[/quote]
And I am confident that if he does win this country is full of idiots who believe everything the media tells them to.

He won’t even place third in the primary because he is not a conservative–he’s a cross dresser who should run for congress in Pelosi’s district where they have no idea how incompetent this guy is under the gun.

[quote]Brad61 wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Either way, only assholes who never went to NYC can say he didn’t do a great job cleaning that city up and leading them on 9/11.

You didn’t watch the video, did you…

Rudy did a “great job” on 9/11?

Was it the over-100 dead firefighters who didn’t hear the orders to evacuate, like the police did, because Rudy replaced shitty old FDP radios that didn’t work, with shitty new radios that didn’t work?

Was it Rudy running around in the dust, because the Emergency Command Center he installed in the WTC complex was inoperable?

Was it Rudy pulling rescue workers off the pile, once the bank recovered their gold? Was it the dumping of bodies into the city dump?

What the hell do you think Rudy did re: 9/11 that was so great? He showed up for work and did his job on 9/11, that’s more than Bush did. Big deal, he acted like the mayor. If he hadn’t fucked up so bad before that day, there would be more people alive today.
[/quote]

I advise you to become mayor of a city of 7 million one day. See how easy it is managing day to day affairs, and then see how easy it is to prepare for the megadisaster that very, very few people thought would ever happen.

And yes, he was running around in the dust, as I recall. Who would have done a better job? Dinkins? ha.

And I know a shitload of people, both in NY and NJ, that think he did a spectacular job on 9/11 and cleaning up that city.

So my opinion doesn’t count as much as a firefighter’s? These same fucking guys that are so plowed all the time, yet will pull that 9/11 card in a second?

I’m not bashing all of them, but there are plenty of pieces of shit in the NYFD, just like there are at any other job. Gimme a break, you’re being an asshole. Not too mention civil servants are always dissatisfied with whomever is running things, because that’s just the way it is.

[quote]JeffR wrote:

Oh, I find it amusing the same guys who were whining about the Swift Boaters, are jumping all over this.

I’m always amused by hypocrisy.

JeffR

[/quote]

I have to agree. I bitched and moan that the swift boat shit was fucking retarded… and now they’re doing the same thing to Rudy.

By the way, unless the Democrats nominate Hillary, I’m not voting for Rudy, so don’t think I’m on his bandwagon. I just like the guy cause of NYC

Giuliani is less popular than Hillary Clinton or Mayor Bloomberg, among New York City voters.

Rudy’s in third place, even in his own home town. Where is his “base” if it’s not New York City?

If the Republicans want to nominate a liberal East Coast big city mayor, who is pro gay rights, pro gun control, and pro choice on abortion, who married his own cousin, who’s a cross-dresser, I say “bring 'em on”.

I guess pickin’s are slim, on the Right.

[quote]bradley wrote:
Giuliani is less popular than Hillary Clinton or Mayor Bloomberg, among New York City voters.

Rudy’s in third place, even in his own home town. Where is his “base” if it’s not New York City?

If the Republicans want to nominate a liberal East Coast big city mayor, who is pro gay rights, pro gun control, and pro choice on abortion, who married his own cousin, who’s a cross-dresser, I say “bring 'em on”.

I guess pickin’s are slim, on the Right.[/quote]

Good evening, bradley.

You do know that New York has about 3 million more registered democrats?

Correct?

Oh, you are addicted to polls. Seek help.

Seriously, if Rudy doesn’t worry you, why spend so much time attacking him?

You and I both know the truth.

JeffR

[quote]Brad61 wrote:
Giuliani is less popular than Hillary Clinton or Mayor Bloomberg, among New York City voters.

Rudy’s in third place, even in his own home town. Where is his “base” if it’s not New York City?

If the Republicans want to nominate a liberal East Coast big city mayor, who is pro gay rights, pro gun control, and pro choice on abortion, who married his own cousin, who’s a cross-dresser, I say “bring 'em on”.

I guess pickin’s are slim, on the Right.[/quote]

Great retort.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Great retort. [/quote]

I finally wrote something that didn’t irritate the hell out of you?

[quote]JeffR wrote:
Seriously, if Rudy doesn’t worry you, why spend so much time attacking him?
[/quote]

Because it’s funny? Because it’s fun? Because I know it will irritate the hell out of you, in particular? Because Rudy is simultaneously the worst viable candidate the GOP has, and the front runner? Because he was my Mayor?

The 5 minutes I spend lampooning Rudy JulieAnnie is no big deal time-wise, in comparison to the satisfaction. Anyway, be sure to keep me abreast of who you’re supporting, so I can post appropriately. Maybe you should change your allegiance to Romney, I’ve got some good jokes for him, too.

And really, Jeff… a transvestite? That’s really your candidate? You’re not joking, are you?