T Nation

RozzyRat TRT Thread


#1

I'm a longtime T-Nation reader just starting out on TRT with an anti-aging clinic. I figured it would be good to share my experience and get feedback.

Vitals

  • 43 yo Man
    -5'10" 225 ~25% bf
    -Standard Low-T symptoms
  • Waist 38

Protocal

200mg Test cyp/week
1100 iu hCG/ week (250 hCG every other day - (trying to conceive, so this is higher, will drop to 7000/week when wife is preggers)
Anastrozole 1mg every 3 days

Labs

Testosterone, Serum 315 Low ng/dL 348 - 1197 01
Comment:Adult male reference interval is based on a population of lean males up to 40 years old.

Free Testosterone(Direct) 9.3 pg/mL 6.8 - 21.5 01

Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum 23.3 nmol/L 16.5 - 55.9 01

Estradiol 11.0 pg/mL 7.6 - 42.6 01

Cholesterol, Total 184 mg/dL 100 - 199 01
Triglycerides 163 High mg/dL 0 - 149 01
HDL Cholesterol 37 Low mg/dL >39 01
Comment 01
According to ATP-III Guidelines, HDL-C >59 mg/dL is considered a
negative risk factor for CHD.
VLDL Cholesterol Cal 33 mg/dL 5 - 40
LDL Cholesterol Calc 114 High mg/dL 0 - 99
TSH 2.880 uIU/mL 0.450 - 4.500 01
Triiodothyronine,Free,Serum 3.5 pg/mL 2.0 - 4.4 01
T4,Free(Direct) 1.42 ng/dL 0.82 - 1.77 01
Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 0.7 ng/mL 0.0 - 4.0 01
Roche ECLIA methodology.
According to the American Urological Association, Serum PSA should
decrease and remain at undetectable levels after radical
prostatectomy. The AUA defines biochemical recurrence as an initial
PSA value 0.2 ng/mL or greater followed by a subsequent confirmatory
PSA value 0.2 ng/mL or greater.
Values obtained with different assay methods or kits cannot be used
interchangeably. Results cannot be interpreted as absolute evidence
of the presence or absence of malignant disease.
Insulin-Like Growth Factor I 176 ng/mL 75 - 216 02

CBC and Platelet Ct 01
WBC 5.8 x10E3/uL 3.4 - 10.8 01
RBC 5.18 x10E6/uL 4.14 - 5.80 01
Hemoglobin 15.8 g/dL 12.6 - 17.7 01
Hematocrit 45.7 % 37.5 - 51.0 01
MCV 88 fL 79 - 97 01
MCH 30.5 pg 26.6 - 33.0 01
MCHC 34.6 g/dL 31.5 - 35.7 01
RDW 13.3 % 12.3 - 15.4 01
Platelets 184 x10E3/uL 150 - 379 01
FSH and LH
LH 4.3 mIU/mL 1.7 - 8.6 01

Glucose, Serum 96 mg/dL 65 - 99 01
Hemoglobin A1c 5.3 % 4.8 - 5.6 01
Please Note: 01
Pre-diabetes: 5.7 - 6.4
Diabetes: >6.4
Glycemic control for adults with diabetes: <7.0
BUN 20 mg/dL 6 - 24 01
Creatinine, Serum 1.02 mg/dL 0.76 - 1.27 01
eGFR If NonAfricn Am 90 mL/min/1.73 >59
eGFR If Africn Am 104 mL/min/1.73 >59
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 20 9 - 20
Sodium, Serum 142 mmol/L 134 - 144 01
Potassium, Serum 4.3 mmol/L 3.5 - 5.2 01
Chloride, Serum 100 mmol/L 97 - 108 01
Carbon Dioxide, Total 25 mmol/L 18 - 29 01
Calcium, Serum 9.4 mg/dL 8.7 - 10.2 01
Protein, Total, Serum 6.9 g/dL 6.0 - 8.5 01
Albumin, Serum 4.6 g/dL 3.5 - 5.5 01
Globulin, Total 2.3 g/dL 1.5 - 4.5
A/G Ratio 2.0 1.1 - 2.5
Bilirubin, Total 0.5 mg/dL 0.0 - 1.2 01
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 63 IU/L 39 - 117 01
AST (SGOT) 22 IU/L 0 - 40 01
ALT (SGPT) 26 IU/L 0 - 44 01
Vitamin B12 771 pg/mL 211 - 946 01
Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy 26.7 Low ng/mL 30.0 - 100.0 01

BP is fine. Thyroid is good. Vitamin D is low. Just added a multi and extra D to my diet. I also take 500 mg/day of Mega Red Krill Oil.

Additional Background

-Diagnosed with Low-T 6 years ago. Referred to a Urologist who didn't do anything. Recommended lifestyle changes. I don't have the old blood work, but it was in the low 300's for total T.
- Made lifestyle changes. Quit drinking, did some Crossfit, started lifting then stopped CF to focus on strength.
- Lost a year at the gym to a soccer injury. Gained 20lbs. Started back in the gym last June. Strength came back, but the weight won't go even with diet changes, increased HIIT, and lots of dog walking.
-Found out my younger brother is on TRT and got huge benefit. Decided to look into it.

Main Goals

-Less fatigue and better mental clarity
-Improved libido (I don't really want sex more than 1 or 2 x per week)
-body recomposition and strength gains.


#2

I did my first injections on Monday afternoon. The Test was a little scary, but I wasn't too bad. The hCG is nothing. Not feeling any different yet, but I know it won't work right way.

I'll post again next week.


#3

Some additional info

-describe body and facial hair: Somewhat light.

-describe where you carry fat and how changed: Stomach

-health conditions, symptoms [history]: healthy

-Rx and OTC drugs: none, Motrin, Aleve for aches and pains

-any hair loss drugs or prostate drugs ever: No

-describe diet High protein, moderate fat moderate carb

-describe training: 3 days lifting heavy (5-3-1, with some circuits), walking 30 mins plus 5 days/week

-testes ache, ever, with a fever? no.

-how have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed: nope


#4

Wow, 200mg of test and 1100 iu of HCG a week for TRT ?
You are going to love that, it's going to turn you into an animal at the gym. Going to the gym is going to be the highlight of your day.
Keep an eye on your Hct/Hgb, and your blood lipid levels. They are probably going to skyrocket on 200mg of test a week.
You might want to hold off on the Anastrozole until you get your first round of blood work back to see how your body is responding, you might not even need it.


#5

Do the math: 250iu hCG EOD = 250iu hCG * 3.5 per week.

FSH and LH
LH 4.3 mIU/mL 1.7 - 8.6 01
FSH=?

Thyroid is good?
Your TSH should be closer to 1.0
fT3, fT4 appear fine
Have you always been using iodized salt?
Iodine + selenium in your vitamins?
Do you feel cold easily?
Is stress a factor in your life?
See the Thyroid Basics Explained thread

Many need 5,000iu Vit-D3

Protocol:
You should be injecting twice a week and take 1mg anastrozole at that time.
Some inject T and hCG EOD for a simpler routine. But this makes anastrozole dosing tricky.

In this forum's one sticky, in the second post, you will find where the stickies went/
Read:
- advice for new guys
- protocol for injections
- thyroid basics --- please check body temperatures as per the sticky.

200mg T per week may be excessive!


#6

FSH 4.8 mIU/mL 1.5 - 12.4 01

I use some iodized salt. Adding a little more is easy. I recently added a multi with iodine and selenium. That has happened since the most recent blood work. Post blood work, I also added 5000 iu of D3.

Stress is a factor, for sure, but I don't get cold easily.

I contacted my case manager about the bad math. I knew it didn't add up, but I figured there was a reason for it. For 1100/week, I should be at 314 (or I would guess round down to 300).

I suppose I could inject the test 2x/week....not very appealing though.


#7

With once a week, T levels get very high then drop a lot. Anastrozole is a competitive drug. Its serum levels need to match FT and weakly bound T serum levels. You cannot properly manage E2 levels with weekly T injections. You would probably crash E2 at the end of a week and feel some degree of horrible.


#8

I'll see how it goes. I'm open minded to adjust if the swings are too big. My brother mentioned that there are dips, but he doesn't describe it as horrible.

I figured out the 1100 iu. My vial is mean to last a little longer. They weren't clear enough with me on that.

On the bright side, it might just be placebo, but I got the best wood I've had in a LONG time tonight :slightly_smiling:


#9

One week into it, I'm not feeling much noticeable difference. Took my second test injection Sunday. It was much easier.


#10

If I take the suggestion of injecting 2x per week instead of 1x/week, I will need more syringes. I currently only have enough syringes for weekly injections. My supplies came with the Test and hCG. For the Test Cyp, I have BD 3ml 20g x 1in. I draw up with the 20g and switch out for a 23g x 1 for injecting.

I don't know the Test Cyp is compounded differently depending on the dose, but my 200mg is carried in a 1 ml injection. So, obviously, I can split into two .5 ml injections.

What would people recommend for syringes and needles and where would you recommend getting them. I'm going to stay IM for the time being. I'm guessing that with a smaller dose, I might be able to use a smaller gauge needle? What do other people use? The place I get my meds overcharges for the supplies and I would prefer to use another supplier anyway.


#11

Read:
- advice for new guys
- protocol for injections
- thyroid basics --- please check body temperatures as per the sticky.

In most jurisdictions of USA and Canada, one can get insulin syringes without an Rx. You can otherwise ask for an Rx. #29, 1/2" 0.5ml is what you need.
Use same size for T and hCG or #23 5/15" for hCG

You can load T and shoot partial doses until its finished. Clean needle after injecting with a alcohol prep pad and recap.

[You can draw and inject with the same #23 needles. ]


#12

I'm a little over 3 weeks into it. So far, I'm not feeling much different. I thought I was starting to get a libido boost, but that seems to have faded. I'm still on once per week. Since I'm not feeling boosts and dips, I don't see the point. If it becomes an issue, I'll make the switch.

Per the sticky, I took my temp for a few days running. Sure enough, I'm coming it at ~97. I ordered Ioderal and it should arrive today or tomorrow. I'm curious to see the effects of IR.

Hopefully the combination TRT soon and IR will have me feeling great soon.


#13

Thyroid is holding you down.

Injecting once a week can lead to higher E2 levels that block benefits of T.
Brain/mental changes from T my be delayed or impaired by levels that drop at end of week.

This is not the way to approach this:
"I don't see the point. If it becomes an issue, I'll make the switch."


#14

Like I said, I started the IR, so we'll see if thyroid is part of the problem.

Clearly you know a lot and you've done a lot of homework. I'm not operating blind. My brother is a nurse practitioner and has done a lot of homework, too. He's been doing TRT for a while now and he shares my genes. I discussed twice weekly injections with him and he's neutral on it. His results have been great. I'm not convinced that I should switch to SC and I'm not sure I want to do IM 2x per week.

As much as anything, I'm keeping this as a journal record for myself and other people. I really appreciate the feedback.


#15

Now I'm about about the 6 week point, and I've been running IR (with Selenium) for about 2 weeks. Body temp is still low and doesn't seem to be improving. It's up and down between 96.2 and 97.1 When I think it's starting to improve, it falls again. I'll get new bloods in a few weeks. Unfortunately, I need to pay cash every time, so it's a limiting factor.

I'm not feeling much different overall, but it's hard to know for sure because I've had a cold. I'm still shaking off the last of it. I've had a morning wood maybe 3 or 4 times since starting it. That's more that I've had in the last 6 months before, so I suppose that's an indicator it could be starting to help.

As for my protocol, I decided to try 2x/week. As I'm getting used to the injections, the idea of 2x/week doesn't seem as scary. I'm sticking with IM for now. I'm also drop the AI to .5 x 2 week. Based on the research I've done, I think the 1 mg 2x/week is WAY too much, especially considering that my baseline estradiol was on the low side to start. I skipped my Wednesday pill last week.


#16

You have ruled out a simple case of iodine deficiency.

At this point, your TSH levels will be exaggerated by the IR.
Get on an iodine maintenance dose and do more thyroid labs later.

As fT3 and fT4 appeared fine earlier, we can consider that elevated rT3 may be blocking fT3 and that can also increase TSH as the feedback loop can also be affected by rT3.


#17

That would seem to make sense. I'm not seeing a test for rT3 on my labs - so I'm guessing I'll need to ask for that next round up? I'm also guessing I should get cortisol levels. I have a very stressful job, and for a long time, I took stimulant medication for ADD (not for about 5 years). Adrenals and cortisol could be a big factor.

Unfortunately, there doesn't see to be any easy solution for that..... :frowning:


#18

9 1/2 week update.

I'm feeling OK, but not as good as I hoped at this point. Sex drive has improved somewhat, but it's not like I'm waking up with morning wood every day. My mental clarity and mood are pretty much the same. I was starting to sleep a little better, but the time change is throwing me for a loop this week.

Question for KSman or anybody else running 2x weekly - are you using an AI at all? I've cut back to .5/mg the day after my first weekly injection. Is this still potentially too much?


#19

Some positive news to report. My belt is down one notch, but I have only lost about 2 lbs on the scale. I used calipers to get an approx body fat at the beginning of this and came out at 25%. Tonight, same calipers, I came out at 22%. That must mean that I'm managing to add a little muscle while dropping fat. At this point in my lifting, I don't think that would be possible without TRT. I've cleaned my diet up A LOT and kept my protein intake high.

Morning wood is starting to kick in a little more lately, too.


#20

It's been a while since I updated. I had bloods about a month ago. E2 was low (9.2) so I took a week off from adex and restarted with .25 2x/week. This really helped - especially with libido and wood quality. Total test and free test were great. Hemocrit was up, but it was still within normal range. Lipids still good. I'm checking BP regularly and it's lower than when I started.

I'm down to 19% body fat at 218 lbs. My lifts are increasing slowly, honestly, I'll take it. My squat is up to 375 from 345, bench is up to 235 from 215, and deadlift up to 455 from 435 since starting, but that's happened while cutting 7% body fat and 10 lbs.

Overall, I'm feeling better - less fatigue, more mental clarity. I've really started to feel the difference in the last few weeks. It guess it just requires patience. I would consider myself a success story so far.