Rowing and Lifting: Can They Coexist?

My school’s rowing team is really hurting for people, so they’re taking anyone. I’ve never rowed before, but having an oppurtunity to walk onto a D1 athletic team kinda piqued my interest. My question is to anyone that rowed/rows; how did it affect your lifting? How did you balance/structure your lifting with the large volume of pulling and aerobic exercise involved?

Well, as you’d probably guess, fucks your hip flexors. It’s very very quad dominant, which means hamstring strength is a bad thing; same for biceps over triceps and back over chest.
On the other hand, trains good lower back strength from sitting up in the boat, good grip, and excellent anaerobic endurance. You will never feel pain like you do after a 2k test.
Just to point out a misconception, some of the training is aerobic, but the races are majorly anaerobic, your lactate tolerance level is massively important (we had ours tested a couple of times).
Finally, it’s got some great camaraderie and for fat loss, their training is amazing. Most of the people in my college’s top boat are scary low body fat.

In college, I joined the rowing team my freshmen year. I dropped all lifting during that time. During the first 4 months, I went from 160lbs to 170lbs and dropped two pant sizes. My deadlift went from 225lbs to 315lbs. I was extremely muscular, lean, and healthy.

I dare you find a muscle that’s not heavily used in rowing. Give it a shot for a few months and see if you enjoy it (which is the most important thing).

FYI, rowing takes brass balls. It’s one of the most grueling sports out there.

The volume of rowing depending on the level may effect progress in weight lifted due to the amount of aerobic work done in training, but there is certainly no reason why rowing and lifting can’t co-exist. Rowing definitely uses many muscles and strength and power are needed. Since I started rowing, even though only at a low level with only 4 training sessions a week most weeks; I have managed to do 2 or 3 total body training a week and my numbers are steadily progressing on top of some extra aerobic work. I would definitely say give it a go and it is great for fat loss. Also the feeling of winning a head to head regatta is amazing.

Keep up a punishing pace. Rowing can lend itself well to volume training don’t try to max out too often on big lifts and always go for a brutally fast finish.

http://rowingillustrated.com/liquidmercury/

My blog for rowingillustrated in regards to lifting and nutrition for rowers (two areas lacking in the rowing world).

That thread has a lot of stuff that I’ve written up for quite a bit of questions that outlines alot of the questions you’ve asked.

Rowing and weight lifting can coexist very well.
Rowing COMPETITIVELY at a top or mid collegiate level and your PERSONAL lifting can’t coexist. Even when you’re young and can do massive volume.

Obviously in US collegiate men’s rowing D1 doesn’t really mean the same thing as it would in others sports - say football (Cal and UW are great crews, but so are Brown, Princeton, Harvard, Yale etc…)
But let’s assume you’re walking on to a decent crew who happens to be short on novices. You can look forward to doing the fairly standard 8-10 water and land workouts a week that will take up between 20-25 hours of your time. Your hands will be fairly torn up until you get used to gripping the oar just right (that varies widely). In addition, remember that there is no off-season. You compete all fall (head races), train through the winter, and compete all spring (sprint races). Men’s rowing (I’m assuming you’re a guy) is not an NCAA sport, so all the NCAA restrictions on practices volume and whatnot don’t apply.

When I was a college rower, we lifted cleans, squat cleans, snatches, overhead squats, deads (lots), and front squats. We also did a little bench work to keep the upper body somewhat even. Obviously every coach is different, but we did 1 day a week of light lifting all fall, went 3 days a week in the winter developing strength and explosiveness, and then tapered down on the lifting through the spring as regattas stacked up. Combine that with 5-9 additional weekly practices and you’ll be hard pressed to find the time or the energy to do your own thing. Oh, yeah, you’re also competing on weekends and that usually involves a lengthy roadtrip.

That kind of volume is pretty typical from everyone I’ve encountered who rowed at a mid to top college level.

I don’t want to discourage you from rowing. It’s hard, but I can honestly say it taught me a lot about tenacity and just how far I could physically and mentally push myself. It was a defining experience in my life and one I wouldn’t trade for anything.

[quote]riggs wrote:
Rowing and weight lifting can coexist very well.
Rowing COMPETITIVELY at a top or mid collegiate level and your PERSONAL lifting can’t coexist. Even when you’re young and can do massive volume.

Obviously in US collegiate men’s rowing D1 doesn’t really mean the same thing as it would in others sports - say football (Cal and UW are great crews, but so are Brown, Princeton, Harvard, Yale etc…)
But let’s assume you’re walking on to a decent crew who happens to be short on novices. You can look forward to doing the fairly standard 8-10 water and land workouts a week that will take up between 20-25 hours of your time. Your hands will be fairly torn up until you get used to gripping the oar just right (that varies widely). In addition, remember that there is no off-season. You compete all fall (head races), train through the winter, and compete all spring (sprint races). Men’s rowing (I’m assuming you’re a guy) is not an NCAA sport, so all the NCAA restrictions on practices volume and whatnot don’t apply.

When I was a college rower, we lifted cleans, squat cleans, snatches, overhead squats, deads (lots), and front squats. We also did a little bench work to keep the upper body somewhat even. Obviously every coach is different, but we did 1 day a week of light lifting all fall, went 3 days a week in the winter developing strength and explosiveness, and then tapered down on the lifting through the spring as regattas stacked up. Combine that with 5-9 additional weekly practices and you’ll be hard pressed to find the time or the energy to do your own thing. Oh, yeah, you’re also competing on weekends and that usually involves a lengthy roadtrip.

That kind of volume is pretty typical from everyone I’ve encountered who rowed at a mid to top college level.

I don’t want to discourage you from rowing. It’s hard, but I can honestly say it taught me a lot about tenacity and just how far I could physically and mentally push myself. It was a defining experience in my life and one I wouldn’t trade for anything.

[/quote]

I disagree. Granted I disagree with a lot of the training methodology in top programs for the fact that most programs under-utilize lifting and strength training. Even rowing on the national level people are capable of finding time to lift 3 times a week quite usually. I believe it was nolte or volkner who did a study comparing strength levels of various levels of rowing, and guys on the national team were pulling 3X their bodyweight and squatting 2.5X their bodyweight. Regardless those are some good numbers (keep in mind most of your heavyweights are in the 220 range). They didn’t get that by tons and tons of volume on the water and erg but built in the weight room.

As far as the NCAA restrictions on practices, most programs abide by them so they are eligible to race at the NCAA championships (yes men’s does have an actual race though not a sanctioned sport, which was in fact chosen by Men’s rowing, while women’s rowing decided to choose to be NCAA sanctioned). Since most squads do abide by the NCAA standards put forth for the women’s teams, most do abide by the time restriction on practicing.

You don’t need to be doing a bodybuilding split to gain size/strength. I can tell you that you can most definitely get big and strong by doing all that you outlined such as deads, cleans, presses, and squats.

BJack - you asked how you would balance your lifting given the specifcs of rowing: If you’re training and competing at a serious level for any sport, you’re not going to have time to go do your own “personal” lifting.

If you’re joining a fairly serious crew, your coach is going to design every workout - whether it’s on the water, on the erg, or in the weight room. He’ll determine overall training volume and optimize everything to get you in peak condition for the most important regattas of the year. And he’s going to push you as far as you can go trying to get you to be the very best rower. That’s what the coach gets paid to do. If you’re going off and lifting extra so you can get bigger during your unload weeks or while you’re on a pre-regatta taper (or do anything else that screws with his training plan) your coach is not going to be very happy.

You’ll be strong as an ox. But there are going to be other guys who have better beach muscles.

Get out there and see if you like it and if you enjoy the team.

To be fair Riggs, I’ve seen a lot of coaches at all levels under-utilize lifting, one reason rowers are so muscularly unbalanced in the US.

As a D1 rower at a top school, in regards to strength training, all of my teammates are incredibly strong in the weight room for the relatively small amount of time we put into lifting. A lot of this comes down to genetics - most of the guys lifting big weights are big framed tall guys 6’3 to 6’8 that are naturally strong without actively lifting. However, it is a common misconception that rowers only train at set practices. In fact, many of us do additional sessions on our own or with partners outside the coach’s planning as long as it doesn’t conflict with races. None of these are official. I personally did a lot of work in the weight room doing squats and deadlifts, generally at the end of the week or even later in the day after an easier dual race. If practice is at 3pm, that doesn’t mean you can’t show up early and get in extra work.

Rowing is one of those sports that requires two disciplines often seen to be counterproductive (endurance and strength training) in order to be successful. The greatest rowers will have both.

In the end, to be highly successful at rowing you must be both incredibly strong with ridiculous endurance. Two points that many on T-Nation may find hard to co-exist but are necessary to succeed in the sport. This is where genetics and one’s ability to recover come into play. To be able to do a 30 minute piece at a 1:39 pace at 9 am followed by a water session, and then go lift at 6pm and do 300 lbs squats all in the same day requires a great athlete with something that just can’t be trained.

Genetics are over-rated. I’ve seen plenty of top-notch rowers that break the mold by reinventing it.

I agree, but often many fall through the cracks in the selection process for elite college/national team levels because they do not possess the raw strength necessary to allow them to completely focus on increasing aerobic capacity, improving technique, and MOVING the boat better. Often these athletes find themselves at odds with their strength training vs their endurance/etc work. As a rower with a good but by no means extraordinary level of strength, I too am working at finding this equilibrium. Strength comes at the expense of endurance that must be gained back. One thing college has allowed for is that my endurance cycles are structured for me and I can focus on strength in the ‘off season’ while increasing endurance more slowly.

Simply put, the rowers with great genetics for natural strength will have a much easier time making selection early that CAN but not always, propel them to greatness because they will have a longer period of time with the best coaches and trainers under their belts.

I think the greatest training lesson in rowing is persistence, because in the end it is often not who is the most gifted that makes the team, but who is still around at the elite level that actually wins the gold. In other words, the most important thing is not quitting - the mental sufferance one possesses can overcome the genetic advantages I mentioned previously.

Don’t get me wrong, you still have to possess incredible strength, endurance, flexibility, and technique in order to be the best - it just might take you longer than some of the others (which is where mental toughness and persistence comes into play). In respect to training for those who are not genetic freaks with Olympic aspirations, the best guys are the ones who are ‘left’ (as in still training) after competing in their own circles of elite rivalries for many years. Survival of the fittest.

The strength chart in this might be interesting to some rowers with questions of where their optimal strength levels should be in regards to three lifts (Squat, Deadlift, Bench Pull).

strengthpro.com/images/How_Strong_is_Strong_Enough.pdf

[quote]MadMushroomMan15 wrote:
I agree, but often many fall through the cracks in the selection process for elite college/national team levels because they do not possess the raw strength necessary to allow them to completely focus on increasing aerobic capacity, improving technique, and MOVING the boat better. Often these athletes find themselves at odds with their strength training vs their endurance/etc work. As a rower with a good but by no means extraordinary level of strength, I too am working at finding this equilibrium. Strength comes at the expense of endurance that must be gained back. One thing college has allowed for is that my endurance cycles are structured for me and I can focus on strength in the ‘off season’ while increasing endurance more slowly.

Simply put, the rowers with great genetics for natural strength will have a much easier time making selection early that CAN but not always, propel them to greatness because they will have a longer period of time with the best coaches and trainers under their belts.

I think the greatest training lesson in rowing is persistence, because in the end it is often not who is the most gifted that makes the team, but who is still around at the elite level that actually wins the gold. In other words, the most important thing is not quitting - the mental sufferance one possesses can overcome the genetic advantages I mentioned previously.

Don’t get me wrong, you still have to possess incredible strength, endurance, flexibility, and technique in order to be the best - it just might take you longer than some of the others (which is where mental toughness and persistence comes into play). In respect to training for those who are not genetic freaks with Olympic aspirations, the best guys are the ones who are ‘left’ (as in still training) after competing in their own circles of elite rivalries for many years. Survival of the fittest.[/quote]

I’m going to have to go out and disagree that endurance is going to suffer when training strength (that is of course unless you are foregoing all endurance training). To my knowledge, no studies have come out showing strength effects endurance negatively, only the vice versa (long endurance pieces have been shown to decrease strength and power).

Of course people with genetic advantages, such as naturally strong, taller, higher resting metabolisms, are going to have an easier time with things. But as you pointed out persistence is truly the most important. Jim Dietz put it best when he said, “Rowing is a sport for dreamers. As long as you put in the work, you can own the dream. When the work stops, the dream disappears.”

I agree that strength training does not decrease endurance per say, but the time needed to be spent gaining strength necessitates a decrease in time spent doing endurance training. Therefore, you lose endurance. It’s very difficult to do both at the same time and find marked improvements in strength.

That is only the case if you can’t time manage. I’ve found that it’s quite possible to run 12 practices a week, 3 of which are lifting, quite successfully. If it’s a training camp week then you might see more practices.

I think its possible to balance the two from personal experience unless you are doing designated weights sessions with the rowing crew, in which case coaches don’t always have the optimal plans for what you might want to achieve in your lifting goals. The point before about blisters is true though so definately use a product to prevent too much blistering or you won’t physically be able to lift a weight.

Definately try it though; it will make you a more mentally focused and tougher person. Nothing quite like having the will power to stare at the back of someones head for 2km’s pulling as hard as possible on the oar for every stroke of the race and throwing up over the side at the end.

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
That is only the case if you can’t time manage. I’ve found that it’s quite possible to run 12 practices a week, 3 of which are lifting, quite successfully. If it’s a training camp week then you might see more practices.[/quote]

agreed
if i could go back to your earlier point that it’s not about big time in the gym but the right program to make the most of the strength work.

it’s pretty well established that resistance training helps cardio effort. and we also know that power work will not necessarily bulk up anyone (and big mass takes time and training for mass) - i know i’m stating the obvious

am i missing that y’all have seen the work that shows upping intensity in winter training on the strength side has positive effects on the season?
http://www.edb.utexas.edu/ssn/CCA%20PDF/Rowing-Resistance%20Training.PDF

There’s also a very nice new study here on the benefits of strength training for bringing down 2k times

and a study i really like again comes back to what is being done in the weight room? not going to failure seems pretty durn critical

in other words, simple obvious stuff that you guys probably all know
less is often more
higher quality work with weights
timing of when to bring on greater load in a season

mc

[quote]-mc- wrote:
am i missing that y’all have seen the work that shows upping intensity in winter training on the strength side has positive effects on the season?
http://www.edb.utexas.edu/ssn/CCA%20PDF/Rowing-Resistance%20Training.PDF
mc

[/quote]

It hasn’t been discussed in this thread but I discuss it in my blog on rowingillustrated.com as well as in a few other threads in this forum, I’m pretty sure in this one somewhere: