T Nation

Routine Help (WS4SB, 5/3/1, etc)

I have been doing the WS4SB 1 and 3 for a year now. After getting sick of trying to ‘work up to a 3-5rm’ and hardly making progress because of trying to decide weights and either not getting enough volume or burning out or whatever the problem may be, I am going to try to hybrid the WS4SB3 and 5/3/1 kind of like what Nate Dogg posted in the WS4SB Appreciaton Society thread.

I am going to be using
Week 1 - 70x3, 80x3, 90x3
Week 2 - 65x5, 75x5, 85x5
Week 3 - 75x5, 85x3, 95x1
which was posted in BRock’s thread in TCA. Then I’ll do 5x10 for the supplemental lift, then the WS4SB3 accessory lifts.

I have some all the calculations based on 90% of my 1rm.

For Upper body, would it be more beneficial to bench 3 wks, then rotate like to floor press, then rotate to board press or something? Or do 3 wks, deload, repeat? I am terribly weak at bench, 225 max. I have never done floor press or board press either… and I’m not 100% sure how much these will help. If I do do them, any ideas on how I could estimate my max based off my bench so I can figure my #'s without actually calculating a max?

For Lower body, I am going to alternate box squat, squat, and deadlift. No questions there.

I am going to do a DE day based on http://www.elitefts.com/documents/top_3_squat_bench.htm with the WS4SB3 RE accessory lifts.

Would
Mon Upper ME
Tue Off
Wed Lower ME
Thur Upper DE
Fri Lower DE
work and allow enough time for me to recover?

Any feedback appreciated. Thanks

You’ve been using a good program. If it’s time to change it up, change it up drastically! The Hepburn “Ten Singles” program could be your “A” ME Day alternated with a “B” ME Day using Westside rep-scheme with heavy bands ala Average Joe. In case this isn’t clear, it would look like this:

Week One
Mon Upper ME Day “A”:
Primary Movement 10 Singles 85-90%
Secondary Movement 5RM plus one down set
Upper-Back Movement
Triceps

the following week:
Mon Upper ME Day “B”:
Primary Movement 1-3RM W/Hvy Band Tension
Secondary Movement 5RM plus one down set
Upper-Back Movement
Triceps

Do the same movement 3rd week as 1st but increase weight and /or reps. Change the secondary and accessory movement every other time too.

Dump the Dynamic Effort days and make them Rep Days. I would consider dropping the second lower-body day completely. Hit your ME Lower Day hard, get your reps in with your secondary movement. You get bigger and stronger while you rest. So schedule it! Best of luck.

I would just keep everything simple and do it as outlined. Do the normal core work and use the Boring but Big template for assistance work.

I mean I like the way WS4SB is set up… but I just end up messing up on the ‘work up to a 3-5rm’ and don’t feel like I ever end up doing it right.

As far as the actually 5/3/1 or Big But Boring, I don’t own the book, I just compiled the #'s from threads on here.

Gabex,

There’s no wrong way to do it. Take a 3RM for example. Keep increasing weight until you hit a challenging 3 reps. It shouldn’t be a life-or-death 3 reps (yet), just kinda hard. Theres your starting weight. Next time do a little more. Switch to 5 reps the same way. When you go several cycles without a PR (an increase in weight or reps), AND you’ve taken a few days off and that didn’t help either, switch it up.

It’s important not to overthink the whole percentage thing. Have a weight in mind when you start, like you’re going to try getting 5 reps with 225. Who cares if it’s 83.5% or 87.3?? Be persistant, lift with a warrior’s heart.

[quote]Island Strength wrote:
Gabex,

There’s no wrong way to do it. Take a 3RM for example. Keep increasing weight until you hit a challenging 3 reps. It shouldn’t be a life-or-death 3 reps (yet), just kinda hard. Theres your starting weight. Next time do a little more. Switch to 5 reps the same way. When you go several cycles without a PR (an increase in weight or reps), AND you’ve taken a few days off and that didn’t help either, switch it up.

It’s important not to overthink the whole percentage thing. Have a weight in mind when you start, like you’re going to try getting 5 reps with 225. Who cares if it’s 83.5% or 87.3?? Be persistant, lift with a warrior’s heart. [/quote]

Good, +1 here…similar to what i think right now!!

Lets not forget about increasing food intake and rest :smiley:

Plateaued hard at 3-4 reps at 102.5kg on the bench (only had access to a bench since september for the first time)…

Stopped obsessising over diet… 250g protein minimum, however the shit I want to do it but about 6 meals a day + pwo shake. 500-750 cals a meal roughly.

Good 8 hours sleep in evening and sometimes even a nap during the day time.

Then monday just gone…

5x102.5kg

still felt fresh…
rested 5 mins…

5x105kg

what the hell?
rested 5 mins…

New PR at 4x107.5kg

Good times.

I know where your coming from as far as “working up to 3-5RM” because I usually tend to have too much weight and miss with things like that.

That’s what I’m liking so far with the 5-3-1 template that you saw that I’m working with. Granted, it’s only been 2 days of training but I’ve been able to hit 95% of my lifts with my projected weights and reps.

The key thing is NOT to use your REAL 1RM (or 2,3,4,5,6,7,8RM) but to take about 90-95% of that and THEN figure your weights out.

For example:

You said your 1Rm for bench was 225lbs.
225*0.9=202
now 202lbs is your “1RM”
if your doing 75/80/85% your weights would be
150,160,170 respectively.

that 5-10% you take off your real 1RM is key.

[quote]gabex wrote:
I mean I like the way WS4SB is set up… but I just end up messing up on the ‘work up to a 3-5rm’ and don’t feel like I ever end up doing it right.

As far as the actually 5/3/1 or Big But Boring, I don’t own the book, I just compiled the #'s from threads on here.[/quote]

Sorry about that. The Big but Boring template has you doing 5x10 with your 50% of your 1rm.

PM me and I will email you the spreadsheet. It should help out.

Holy hell.

Parallel Box Squat (my max is ~270)
165x3, 190x3, 215x3

50% Squat 5x10
135x10, 135x10
had to drop weight
125x10, 125x5?? lol
95x10

Um wow. Planned on doing RDL.
Fail.
Tried GHR.
Fail.

Leg Curl 4x10
Leg Ext 4x10

wow. the 50% squat… I don’t know.