T Nation

Routine Critique

havent spent any real time training as a powerlifter, but after talking to some at my gym they convinced me to give it a try and compete in a meet some time late next year.

just wanted to get your input on the routine.

monday
squat 2 x 5
box squat 2 x 4
leg press 2 x 10
(pick 2 of the above)
calves 2 x 15
heavy abs 2 x 20

wedensday
wide grip flat bench 2 x 6
incline bench 2 x 6
dips 2 x 10
side raises or upright rows 1 x 10-15

thursday
deadlift variation 2 x 5 (rotate each week)
GHR, pull throughs, reverse hypers 1 x 10-15 (pick 1)
barbell rows 2 x 6
pull downs 2 x 8
curls 2 x 8

this is just the basic routine as i get stronger i will add a few more exercises in.

How much do you weigh and what are your current 1RM in the big 3? Knowing this can help a lot. If you’re still pretty weak you probably don’t need anything more complicated than starting strength. And whether you’re a beginner or already fairly strong, 5/3/1 for Powerlifting is an extremely easy program to follow that works for most.

Assuming you’ll be lifting raw at your first meet, I would caution against using box squats. Personally, I think they can be useful for both raw/geared lifters, but there’s probably no need to try to implement them yet. Just stick to the basic squat.

The last thing I’ll say is just because you’re training for powerlifting doesn’t mean you have to do a wide grip bench. If thats what you’ve been doing and are good at, then keep at it. But there are a fair amount of lifters who use a closer grip.

Overall its a decent routine, but this is just some advice I’d give that hopefully doesn’t suck.

Fuck the guy before me with his million random programs, your routine is fine

2x5 or 2x6 is not a whole lot of work sets. I would get on board with the who posted above me and say starting strength or 531.

[quote]daraz wrote:
Fuck the guy before me with his million random programs, your routine is fine[/quote]

Oh the 2 most widely used and arguably best programs for beginners in the world? Those random programs?

Why wide grip bench press? A close grip bench press builds a wide one better than a wide one builds a close one

[quote]daraz wrote:
Fuck the guy before me with his million random programs, your routine is fine[/quote]

complains about a million programs
OP suggests one program
quality counting skills
A+ post, would read again

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
havent spent any real time training as a powerlifter, but after talking to some at my gym they convinced me to give it a try and compete in a meet some time late next year.

just wanted to get your input on the routine.

monday
squat 2 x 5
box squat 2 x 4
leg press 2 x 10
(pick 2 of the above)
calves 2 x 15
heavy abs 2 x 20

wedensday
wide grip flat bench 2 x 6
incline bench 2 x 6
dips 2 x 10
side raises or upright rows 1 x 10-15

thursday
deadlift variation 2 x 5 (rotate each week)
GHR, pull throughs, reverse hypers 1 x 10-15 (pick 1)
barbell rows 2 x 6
pull downs 2 x 8
curls 2 x 8

this is just the basic routine as i get stronger i will add a few more exercises in. [/quote]

2 sets? Not enough by a long shot. I would side with MightyMouse and cparker and say start 5/3/1 for Powerlifting or use this:

http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/programs/under-the-bar-9-week-basic-training-program/

It is a complete 9 week template ready to use. I used it when I was first starting out and made great gains. It is a 4 day split instead of a t3 day split–but if you can swing the extra day without skipping workouts it is great. If not, use 5/3/1 or PL or something similar. Don’t hack the 9 week program apart. The only thing I would say to do different would be to use a 5 rep max or 3 rep max on ME days instead of a 1RM. You need the extra time under the bar.

Oh–and use a regular bench press instead of a board press in the first 4 weeks. You can do everything else as written. If you don’t have a reverse hyper do back extensions and if you don’t have a glute ham raise machine do manual glute ham raises (you can look those up).

I do agree however with your choice of 5 rep max in the split you outlined above. Beginners to powerlifting need to work on 3 or 5 RMs to build neural efficiency and also volume. 1RMs are fine for testing once in a while, but shouldn’t be trained as often the others. One reason I like 5/3/1 for powerlifting.

Advice: When working up to a max, whether it’s a 1, 3 or 5 rep max, you should use at least 6 sets. The sweet spot is 6-9 sets total from warm-ups all the way to your max attempt. Yes, it means smaller jumps in weight between sets, but you need more volume. A classic mistake many beginners make is to try to max after just a couple sets of warm-ups. That’s no good.

Example: try for 300 x 3 bench:

BAD: bar, 135 x 10, 225 x 6, 300 x fail

GOOD: bar, 135 x 5, 165 x 5 , 195 x3 or 5 , 225 x 3 , 255 x 3 , 280 x 3, 300 x 3 (7 sets not counting the empty bar)

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
havent spent any real time training as a powerlifter, but after talking to some at my gym they convinced me to give it a try and compete in a meet some time late next year.

just wanted to get your input on the routine.

monday
squat 2 x 5
box squat 2 x 4
leg press 2 x 10
(pick 2 of the above)
calves 2 x 15
heavy abs 2 x 20

wedensday
wide grip flat bench 2 x 6
incline bench 2 x 6
dips 2 x 10
side raises or upright rows 1 x 10-15

thursday
deadlift variation 2 x 5 (rotate each week)
GHR, pull throughs, reverse hypers 1 x 10-15 (pick 1)
barbell rows 2 x 6
pull downs 2 x 8
curls 2 x 8

this is just the basic routine as i get stronger i will add a few more exercises in. [/quote]

2 sets? Not enough by a long shot. I would side with MightyMouse and cparker and say start 5/3/1 for Powerlifting or use this:

http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/programs/under-the-bar-9-week-basic-training-program/

It is a complete 9 week template ready to use. I used it when I was first starting out and made great gains. It is a 4 day split instead of a t3 day split–but if you can swing the extra day without skipping workouts it is great. If not, use 5/3/1 or PL or something similar. Don’t hack the 9 week program apart. The only thing I would say to do different would be to use a 5 rep max or 3 rep max on ME days instead of a 1RM. You need the extra time under the bar.

Oh–and use a regular bench press instead of a board press in the first 4 weeks. You can do everything else as written. If you don’t have a reverse hyper do back extensions and if you don’t have a glute ham raise machine do manual glute ham raises (you can look those up).

I do agree however with your choice of 5 rep max in the split you outlined above. Beginners to powerlifting need to work on 3 or 5 RMs to build neural efficiency and also volume. 1RMs are fine for testing once in a while, but shouldn’t be trained as often the others. One reason I like 5/3/1 for powerlifting.

[/quote]

i get what your saying. im not going to try and understand why the routine is designed the way it is, but it was written by an elite powerlifter or used to be john pinder (exmgq) posts at iron addicts. but i will take into consideration your advice thanks.

[quote]chobbs wrote:
Why wide grip bench press? A close grip bench press builds a wide one better than a wide one builds a close one[/quote]

i dont have any real experience powerlifting so i dont know why but i trust the person the program was written by.

I dont have issue with the exercise selection so much as the volume. 4 work sets per day? I would feel like i just got done warming up. Or is there more assistance work after what you already outlined?

Edit: my maths suck, its more than 4 work sets, but still low imo

[quote]mkral55 wrote:
I dont have issue with the exercise selection so much as the volume. 4 work sets per day? I would feel like i just got done warming up. Or is there more assistance work after what you already outlined?

Edit: my maths suck, its more than 4 work sets, but still low imo[/quote]

the routine above is the basic version when i get a bit more strength up i plan to switch to this.

Extended Version

Monday:
Squats 2 x 5
Box squats 2 x 5
Leg presses 1 x 20 (pick 1 of the squats + the leg presses)
posterior core movement 2 x 10-20reps
heavy abs 2 x 20
hips 1 x 20-25 reps
Calves (your choice of exercise if you like) 2 x 10

Tuesday:
Wide grip flat bench 2 x 6 (index fingers on the rings)
hammer grip dbs 2 x 8-12 reps
tricep push downs 1-2 x 8-100reps. (yup 100)
db side laterals 1-2 x 10reps light
db front raises 1-2 x 10reps light
pull-a-parts 1-2 x 20reps

Thursday:
Dead lifts (rotate variations each week) 2 x 5
posterior core movement 2 x 10-20reps
heavy abs 2 x 20reps
rows 2 x 4-8reps
Reverse grip narrow grip pull downs 2 x 4-8reps
Standing wide grip curls 2 x 8-12 reps (or your favorite curl here)
hammer curls or reverse curls 2 x 8-12reps

Ed Coan would commonly work up to two main work sets of the day. It worked out well for him.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Advice: When working up to a max, whether it’s a 1, 3 or 5 rep max, you should use at least 6 sets. The sweet spot is 6-9 sets total from warm-ups all the way to your max attempt.[/quote]

What are you basing this off of?

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Advice: When working up to a max, whether it’s a 1, 3 or 5 rep max, you should use at least 6 sets. The sweet spot is 6-9 sets total from warm-ups all the way to your max attempt. Yes, it means smaller jumps in weight between sets, but you need more volume. A classic mistake many beginners make is to try to max after just a couple sets of warm-ups. That’s no good.

Example: try for 300 x 3 bench:

BAD: bar, 135 x 10, 225 x 6, 300 x fail

GOOD: bar, 135 x 5, 165 x 5 , 195 x3 or 5 , 225 x 3 , 255 x 3 , 280 x 3, 300 x 3 (7 sets not counting the empty bar)[/quote]

wait what they way you described the warm ups is the way i plan to do them.

eg.
squat
bar x 8
95 x 5
135 x 5
185 x 3
225 x 3
265 for 2 sets of 5

leg press
1 plate x 10
2 plate x 8
3 plate for 2 sets of 10

[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
Ed Coan would commonly work up to two main work sets of the day. It worked out well for him.[/quote]

True, but the assistance work afterwards as i understand Coans programming was/is a fair bit more colume than this. Also on bench days there are 6+ work sets of pressing between normal, incline, close grip, etc, from what i see in CSEagles log.

At any rate, just providing my opinion, this program would not be enough volume for me. May very well work fine for OP.

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]chobbs wrote:
Why wide grip bench press? A close grip bench press builds a wide one better than a wide one builds a close one[/quote]

i dont have any real experience powerlifting so i dont know why but i trust the person the program was written by. [/quote]

Chobbs, very true for geared lifters, but wide is used to help off the chest strength. Super wide grip bench press is one of the most effective, but very under appreciated exercises for raw benchers.
Personally I need to implement them in my training because my bench has suffered from not using them.

[quote]Jayk wrote:

Chobbs, very true for geared lifters, but wide is used to help off the chest strength. Super wide grip bench press is one of the most effective, but very under appreciated exercises for raw benchers.
Personally I need to implement them in my training because my bench has suffered from not using them.[/quote]

I know very few raw lifters who take a wide grip. In fact, I find most raw lifters need to bring their grip in compared to equipped lifters. Add to that – and this one is more anecdotal – but I’ve found a closer grip also improves off-the-chest strength/power.

Of course, there’s still utility, but it can also hinge on your body type. I’m a small guy and a wide grip is awful for me.

[quote]animus wrote:

[quote]Jayk wrote:

Chobbs, very true for geared lifters, but wide is used to help off the chest strength. Super wide grip bench press is one of the most effective, but very under appreciated exercises for raw benchers.
Personally I need to implement them in my training because my bench has suffered from not using them.[/quote]

I know very few raw lifters who take a wide grip. In fact, I find most raw lifters need to bring their grip in compared to equipped lifters. Add to that – and this one is more anecdotal – but I’ve found a closer grip also improves off-the-chest strength/power.

Of course, there’s still utility, but it can also hinge on your body type. I’m a small guy and a wide grip is awful for me.[/quote]

I should have perhaps been a bit more direct. I do not mean wide grip for competing.

Yes, very few do use it even for training, but I read an article by Louie Simmons a while back talking about different max effort exercises. I forget the name of the lifter, but he said the guy was one of the strongest raw benchers he knew and would work it up to a 6 rep max.
I will see if I can find it sometime later tonight.

Edit
I found an atricle where he mentions it, but it is not the original one I saw. I could not find that one.
http://www.westside-barbell.com/westside-articles/PDF.Files/03PDF/How%20to%20Bench%20Press%20500%20Easy.pdf