T Nation

Routine Critique/Help


Brief history, 13 years old, ~1 year of casual lifting, current maxes: DL 265, Squat 170, Bench 120 @ 121.6 lbs. ~15-12% bf. Main goals are to get stronger. I would say get jacked, but I can’t build significant mass now?(If this is wrong please correct me)
Thinking of running 5/3/1, is this setup ok? Leader, 5’s pro BBB @ FSL (2 cycles) or 55 top set (2 cycles), idk what assistance / Anchor, 3/5/1 + PR sets (5/3/1 percentages) Jokers on 3/1 weeks, 55 FSL or 3*5 top set. Chinups with everything, weighted plank/ab wheel for abs, conditioning Tuesday/Thursday


First off, your post is a bit poorly structured and difficult to read. Might want to work on relaying your question a bit more accurately in the future to get quality responses.

I am assuming you are asking if you should run either 5’s Pro with BBB @FSL, or 5x5/3/1 for a Leader? The answer is it doesn’t matter as long as you follow the principles of 5/3/1

Honestly, at your stage of the game basically anything will work. You are so early in your training age that you just need to focus on the fundamentals and the principals of the program. If I was you I would pick a 5/3/1 template geared toward beginners and get to work. I would highly recommend doing the BBB Challenge. It will help you build mass, strength, and let you get lots of practice doing the lifts properly. I wouldn’t even worry about Jokers until you have more than a year of solid training under your belt.

Long story short, read the books, pick a template, follow it AS WRITTEN, and reap the benefits. Focus on the main lifts and as a wise man once said “Don’t major in the minors!”.


Sorry about that. Let me rephrase, is this shit or not? / is this overtraining. I can’t really buy the book, no form of online payment. (mostly the former question)
Leader 5’s pro with BBB @ FSL for 2 cycles, 5* top set 2 cycles. Anchor 3/5/1 with 3* top set


Honestly, I still am not quite sure what your trying to run. If I had to guess it’s some kind of 5x5/3/1 and BBB hybrid. If that’s the case I am pretty sure no such template has ever been written. I have neither the time nor desire to explain how to do either separately and why yours is wrong.

As for you not being able to afford the books, there are plenty of articles on T-Nation that Jim Wendler has written that show tried and true 5/3/1 templates all spelled out for you and ready to go.

So I say again, pick a template, FOLLOW IT AS WRITTEN.


Two cycles of BBB then two cycles of 5*5/3/1 is what I’m trying to run. idk how to make more concise


Are you running these like the original 5/3/1 program with a deload on the 4th week?

Are your TM correct? Both of those require an 80-85% TM to run properly. I just tried to run 5x5/3/1 and completely screwed it up and had to start over again.

Is BBB your Leader and 5x5/3/1 your Anchor? Or are they all one big Leader? Its confusing as both are always used as Leaders to my knowledge. And I am also pretty sure you never run more than 3 Leaders in a row.


In reply to your first question, no leader-leader-7th week TM test-anchor-deload
I sure hope so. I’m young and use light weights, so if it’s slightly over I think (hope) I’ll be fine
I meant 2 cycles of a BBB leader+anchor, then 2 cycles of a 5*5/3/1 leader+anchor.


There is no excuse for “hope so” when it comes to a correct TM. I am not saying this in a condescending way I am saying this in a “trust me you will pay for this later” way.

You should run 7th Week Deload: TM Test before beginning any new programming. One of 5/3/1’s core principles is starting too light. So in summary, make sure your god damn TM is correct. If you can do your TM for 5 good, solid reps it is a 85% TM.

Your Leaders and Anchors are good just make sure if you do FSL with 5x5/3/1 that you do you supplemental work on a different day than your 5x5/3/1 work (ie. Do your Squat 5x5/3/1 then Bench FSL supplemental on Monday, vice versa on Tuesday). I made this mistake two weeks ago since I didn’t read the book closely enough and paid for it.


Bro, you’re thirteen.

Good for you for lifting.

Your biggest enemy is injury and injury comes from over training.

I’m a huge fan of 5/3/1, but you should probably focus on form and not worry about progression or TM’s right now.

Start low, progress slow, hit PR’s.

Do it with great form.


Stick with very basic programming. I would do the original 5/3/1 for a couple years and focus on pure strength (you see what I did there?).

I’d stick with chins, dips, pushups, ab wheel, leg raises, DB SLDL, and DB Squats for assistance. 0-50 per category.

You’re 13 years old. Make sure you have someone coaching you or helping you get started with the big lifts. They aren’t rocket science, but forming good habits now will last a lifetime.

Good luck!


Are my supplamental protocols ok?
Do I need to worry about jumps/throws and stuffs like that yet?
Also, is it a bad idea to superset ring chins with almost everything?
For the DB stuff, SLDL = single leg deadlift? For DB squat, assuming double leg and front rack position (like double kb front squat) and fairly heavy right?


Also should I worry about getting bands and doing prehab stuff (pull aparts, face pulls, etc)


Ofcourse you should worry about this. Its a handful of jumps… it is hard to come up with an easiesr thing thay you could do that will have carry over into everything.

  1. I do not think you need much supplemental at this stage in the game, but if anything, I would stick with 3-5x5@FSL for supplemental if you feel you must do extra work other than the original 5/3/1 set’s and reps.

  2. Yes, 10-20 jumps/throws after you warm up/mobility. I suggest you buy 5/3/1 Forever and follow “Beginner Prep School” and get a coach or an adult (your father?) to help you with the lifts.

  3. Ring chins are fine. Use various implements, grips etc for your pulls/tugging.

  4. SLDL = straight leg deadlift. DB Squat is a DB held at chest level, like a goblet squat. 3-5 sets of 10-15 reps, don’t worry about how heavy, worry about controlling the weight down and exploding up.


broad jump for deadlift, incline plyo pushup for bench, ? for squat (no box) and ? (no med ball) for press
Dad doesn’t lift, my 8th grade science teacher does and I lift w him T/TH (kinda crossfit style stuff)


Jim told me once that incline plyo-pushups are not a replacement for medicine ball throws and that you should not do them for “bench”.

If you can’t throw anything, then just jump. Box jump, jump onto a bench, standing long jumps, etc…


k thanks. I’ll probably be getting a med ball for xmas, along with an ab wheel, dip belt. Would you suggest a 45 degree hyper bench?


Get an old bag, shovel some dirt into it and throw that (outside).

Or shovel into a plastic bag, tie up amd wrap in a crap load of duct tape.

Or find a 5-10kg rock and throw that.

There’s like a million alternatives