Routine Advice

Bigger Stronger Leaner Jim Wendler 5/3/1 Coaching
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41 bench 375 squat 405 OHP 225 dead 500 finally!
OHP-531 1-2 heavy singles ,z press 3 sets 10-12, 80# dbell press 3 sets of 10,100# dbell shrugs 3 sets of 15, standing lat raises 3 sets 12-15 ,bar bell rows 3 sets also do pullups 1-3 slow between each rep I’ll finish off with biceps and forearms
SQUAT 531 1-2 heavy singles , then 3 sets of squats 5 reps ,4 sets rom deadlifts 10-12 reps ,more rows 3 sets of 10
BENCH 531 heavy single then incline 4 sets 10-12, floor press 3 sets 5-8 reps, close grip press 4 sets of 8-10 then 10 sets of dip amrap ,pull downs 4 sets 12-15 reps ,skull crushers 3 sets of 10-12, 1 arm tricep extension 3 sets 10 reps
DEADS 531 heavy single ,rack pulls 2 inches below knee 3 sets 5-8 ,bar bell rows a shit load!

I’ll also do squats before I do my OHP 3sets as for cardio I do muay Thai I was going 3-4 times a week lost weight IT FUCKIN KILLED ME ! Cut it down to 1-2 times a week I really enjoy Thai boxing but I FUCKIN LOVE LIFTING! Nothing can compare will brothers let me no what u think also I haven’t changed this routine for about a year should I ??

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Joe, are you still making progress with this routine? Are you still excited about this routine? If the answer to both of those questions is ‘yes’, then keep going. If not, then we need to know your goals to give you an idea of what to do next.

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Chances are you’re running yourself into the ground. Also, doing Muay Thai for cardio is like doing rock climbing for grip strength; it sort of works but there are easier ways and the guys who do it seriously will roll their eyes at you for a good reason.

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First thanks for your replies Joey about your comment I’m making progress I hit 500 dead my main goal for along time I guess I meant should I change I read u should change ur program I was just curious what people suggested my goals are 250 OHP 500 squat 405 bench and keep pushing my dead as far as it goes.

Nighthawk about ur comment I do feel I’m burning myself out at first I would get off work lift heavy then go to class it was killing me especial when we sparred I don’t do that any more I go at least 2-3 times a week GREAT FUCKING COMMENT ROCK CLIMBING FOR GRIP STRENGHT but know one rolls there eyes there is pro fighters there and when we round robin spar it’s intense but it is a great feeling of accomplishment when u get through it .thanks for replies

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Joe,

My best advice to you is to get back to basics and rediscover the power and effectiveness of the four main lifts themselves. That would be a huge change to your routine in a positive direction given the high volume assistance work you are currently doing.

Adopt a FSL set/rep scheme that best suits your goals, and limit your assistance work to chins, rows, band pull aparts, and ab work. This strategy has increased my size, strength, and overall knowledge of what is truly necessary in a training program. That knowledge is power.

Good luck.

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Also, if gaining strength is your number one goal, then get rid of the high-intensity conditioning. Do some walking on your days off, preferably with a weight vest to keep your cardiovascular health in check. Otherwise, concentrate on training.

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[quote]JoeyWaters wrote:
Also, if gaining strength is your number one goal, then get rid of the high-intensity conditioning. Do some walking on your days off, preferably with a weight vest to keep your cardiovascular health in check. Otherwise, concentrate on training. [/quote]

Whoa - I totally agree with your post before this, but I think he should stick with the Muay Thai training since he derives a lot out of it and he already scaled it back to not overload his recovery. What’s the point of developing all this strength if you don’t have a kick-ass application for it?

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[quote]bartmann wrote:

[quote]JoeyWaters wrote:
Also, if gaining strength is your number one goal, then get rid of the high-intensity conditioning. Do some walking on your days off, preferably with a weight vest to keep your cardiovascular health in check. Otherwise, concentrate on training. [/quote]

Whoa - I totally agree with your post before this, but I think he should stick with the Muay Thai training since he derives a lot out of it and he already scaled it back to not overload his recovery. What’s the point of developing all this strength if you don’t have a kick-ass application for it? [/quote]

I would agree that if Muay Thai doesn’t affect recovery, then keep it in. I just can’t think of too many people that can actually do that and truly concentrate on gaining strength. Joe may be the exception, but since I don’t know him personally, my advice was based on what the majority of people should do. For instance, I love pushing the prowler and it gives me great satisfaction to do it heavy and often. However, in a 6-12 week block truly dedicated to gaining strength, I take the prowler out and put in outdoor walking in the morning because I would crash before the block was over if I didn’t. If Joe can get stronger while training Muay Thai 1-2 times a week, then that’s great! That’s his path and I hope he crushes it!

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[quote]JoeyWaters wrote:
Joe,

My best advice to you is to get back to basics and rediscover the power and effectiveness of the four main lifts themselves. That would be a huge change to your routine in a positive direction given the high volume assistance work you are currently doing.

Adopt a FSL set/rep scheme that best suits your goals, and limit your assistance work to chins, rows, band pull aparts, and ab work. This strategy has increased my size, strength, and overall knowledge of what is truly necessary in a training program. That knowledge is power.

Good luck.[/quote]

Hi Joey

I have tried to strip everything back recently too. Would you mind sharing how you set your training days up please?

Thanks
Dan

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[quote]Dan E wrote:

[quote]JoeyWaters wrote:
Joe,

My best advice to you is to get back to basics and rediscover the power and effectiveness of the four main lifts themselves. That would be a huge change to your routine in a positive direction given the high volume assistance work you are currently doing.

Adopt a FSL set/rep scheme that best suits your goals, and limit your assistance work to chins, rows, band pull aparts, and ab work. This strategy has increased my size, strength, and overall knowledge of what is truly necessary in a training program. That knowledge is power.

Good luck.[/quote]

Hi Joey

I have tried to strip everything back recently too. Would you mind sharing how you set your training days up please?

Thanks
Dan[/quote]

Dan,

In May of this year, at Jim’s recommendation, I did the Rest Pause Challenge that incorporates some of the DoggCrapp Training methods into 5/3/1. Google that challenge, it’s a T-Nation article Jim wrote in 2013. It’s the four main lifts plus some rows, chins, curls and tricep work. That’s it. I had to modify the deadlift day due to a back injury, so that day was always 3x3 regardless of the week, plus whatever low back/hamstring assistance work I could get away with as my “widowmaker” set. Usually this was rack pulls from the knee for a heavy set of 10, or 3-5 sets of GHR and reverse hypers. This worked for me, but I would rather have stayed with the original program. I had to “train what was trainable” as Jim says.

These days I train 3 days a week, combining the pull/press on Friday. I have picked a FSL protocol for each lift that I feel suits my needs best. I do my main sets, push the last set hard, do some FSL work, rows, chins, abs, and low back work. That’s all, no other assistance work.

NOTE: I have found that when lifting each rep with as much speed as you have available and stopping the set when the bar speed drops significantly has given me plenty of volume within each lift to grow and get stronger. I do that for every lift. With submax training, you must push each rep with as much speed as you can muster, while lowering the bar with some semblance of control. Without that effort, you won’t truly reap the benefits of 5/3/1. I know because I got it wrong initially!

I can’t tell you my max increases derived from the Rest/Pause Challenge because I never max out. I did hit massive rep records on all lifts though, other than the deadlift because I had to modify it. It showed me the effectiveness of the 4 main lifts because that almost all you do. My future training will benefit from doing that challenge.

Lastly, if you do it, eat big! The program is only 2 days a week, but it will crush you if you don’t eat enough. Also, I recommend doing 6 weeks and moving on. I did 12 weeks, and it beat the hell out of me.

I don’t want to jack Joe’s thread here, but there are some ideas for him if he wants to get back to basics.

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Thanks for the detailed reply
, much appreciated.

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Thanks for this info, I found it useful as well. I’ve had my eye on the Rest-Pause challenge as a cool-looking program that I’d like to try, but I’ve been kind of “waiting” for a period when I have less time to get to the gym and the 2x / week makes sense for my schedule.

Is there any particular reason you did it when you did? (I.e. why did Jim recommend it for you?)

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There wasn’t any particular reason I did it. Jim and I were talking about people bashing DC training and how that is a stupid thing to do considering the success many bodybuilders have had on it. We were getting fired up about it, and he just said “you should do the challenge”. He gave me an idea of what to do for the deadlift to keep my back from flaring up again, and I started the next week.

It’s a simple, brutal, and effective challenge.

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Cool, thanks for the info.

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First thanks for your replies and advice Joey waters & Bartman very positive and helpful i very much appreciate it.This will sound dumb but it never crossed my mind that muay Thai would hinder my recovery I was thinking as long as I’m not lifting heavy I’d be fine you do some pushups but the majority is kicks pad work and sparring
It’s to late for me to stop I got a taste for it but your right fri I couldn’t even talk my eyes were bloodshot my arms wouldn’t stop shaking ,I deadlifted on thur and it probably wasn’t enough time to recovery I do OHP today it is a bitch.
I will try fsl and jokers it’s always hard for me to do less I can’t get it in my head that less is better I never even did a deload ever ! I’d just keep going .
Would it be 531 then fsl then jokers and chins and rows for upper body? Do you use 90 % for jokers and if so is it amrap ? Thanks again for ur help

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Joe, in your case, I wouldn’t do jokers at all. They may not seem like much at the time, but they are very taxing over time. Jim usually says to do ONE joker set every six weeks. Just push your last set hard as hell, then do whatever FSL you feel suits you.

For instance: For upper body movements, I always do 5x5 because I can handle the volume. With deads, I do 3-5 x 3 to maximize recovery since my dead/press day is combined. For squats I like the AMRAP option for leg size/strength, which I fell in love with doing the Rest/Pause challenge. Maybe that gives you some ideas for yourself.

Also, Google the article “You Don’t Grow In The Gym” by Stan Efferding. It’s not very long, and it will tell you what you need to know about “less is more”. Jim is a big fan of that article and of Stan in general. If you don’t know who Stan is, he is a self-made multi-millionaire, an IFBB Pro, and totaled 2,226 without knee wraps at 275. Well worth the read!

Good luck, Joe, and feel free to ask other questions.