Rousey Can Beat Cain

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Of course a woman can beat a man under certain conditions. A man untrained in Judo would lose to Rhonda in a Judo match. A man untrained in BJJ would lose to Kyra Gracie in a BJJ match. When you factor in size and strength differences they matter in the same way that they matter with men. The bigger and stronger the opponent the higher skill level the smaller person, male or female, will need to compensate.

The problem for women, and even men, is when you start going away from a sport context with specific rules and move towards “reality.” Being good, or even great, at Judo, BJJ, wrestling, or any other combat sport and/or combat art’s sport side, does not mean you know self-defense regardless of size and sex differences. That’s why it’s not hard to imagine a 135 pound male UFC fighter getting his ass kicked by a 225 pound guy who is “just” an experienced street fighter. [/quote]

This is also silly. Fighters fight. It’s what they do. I’ve never met a single competitive fighter who was “lost” in a street fight, but I’ve met several legitimate regular “tough guys” who got their asses handed to them in a ring. I’m not saying that being a trained professional automatically puts you on God Mode, but it definitely gives you the automatic upperhand in just about any violent altercation. Ever see the video of Roger Huerta fighting some massive black dude on the streets in Austin?

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]DeadKong wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

Almost as silly as Jones saying he’d fight Klitschko in a boxing match.[/quote]

Lol. Nicely played there, that’s for sure.
[/quote]

JDS has said before that He could defeat a Klitchko in boxing with four months preparation. I wonder if anyone thinks that is perposterous too.[/quote]

It’s beyond preposterous. It’s dumb as fuck.[/quote]

Well, there is something about the Klitschko Brothers style that seems to make lesser fighters think they can trounce them. They don’t seem to be dynamic enough, or some shit. The reality is big, tall, strong dudes who hit hard and possess good fundamentals are tough to beat. They are dominant and flat out wreck dudes, but somehow come off beatable to the public and I think a lot of fighters.

The other part of it is I think Junior or Jones would love to take a beating for the kind of money Klitschko opponents make. Shit, I would to.

Regards,

Robert A

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Of course a woman can beat a man under certain conditions. A man untrained in Judo would lose to Rhonda in a Judo match. A man untrained in BJJ would lose to Kyra Gracie in a BJJ match. When you factor in size and strength differences they matter in the same way that they matter with men. The bigger and stronger the opponent the higher skill level the smaller person, male or female, will need to compensate.

The problem for women, and even men, is when you start going away from a sport context with specific rules and move towards “reality.” Being good, or even great, at Judo, BJJ, wrestling, or any other combat sport and/or combat art’s sport side, does not mean you know self-defense regardless of size and sex differences. That’s why it’s not hard to imagine a 135 pound male UFC fighter getting his ass kicked by a 225 pound guy who is “just” an experienced street fighter. [/quote]

This is also silly. Fighters fight. It’s what they do. I’ve never met a single competitive fighter who was “lost” in a street fight, but I’ve met several legitimate regular “tough guys” who got their asses handed to them in a ring. I’m not saying that being a trained professional automatically puts you on God Mode, but it definitely gives you the automatic upperhand in just about any violent altercation. Ever see the video of Roger Huerta fighting some massive black dude on the streets in Austin?[/quote]

Yeah, and that wasn’t just a massive black dude, that was allegedly Rashad Bobino, a former linebacker for the Texas Longhorns. His stats for his senior year listed him as 230 lbs, so you figure he had at least 60lbs on Roger. And if he was the type to knock out a girl in public, you kinda figure that wasn’t his first street fight either

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Of course a woman can beat a man under certain conditions. A man untrained in Judo would lose to Rhonda in a Judo match. A man untrained in BJJ would lose to Kyra Gracie in a BJJ match. When you factor in size and strength differences they matter in the same way that they matter with men. The bigger and stronger the opponent the higher skill level the smaller person, male or female, will need to compensate.

The problem for women, and even men, is when you start going away from a sport context with specific rules and move towards “reality.” Being good, or even great, at Judo, BJJ, wrestling, or any other combat sport and/or combat art’s sport side, does not mean you know self-defense regardless of size and sex differences. That’s why it’s not hard to imagine a 135 pound male UFC fighter getting his ass kicked by a 225 pound guy who is “just” an experienced street fighter. [/quote]

This is also silly. Fighters fight. It’s what they do. I’ve never met a single competitive fighter who was “lost” in a street fight, but I’ve met several legitimate regular “tough guys” who got their asses handed to them in a ring. I’m not saying that being a trained professional automatically puts you on God Mode, but it definitely gives you the automatic upperhand in just about any violent altercation. Ever see the video of Roger Huerta fighting some massive black dude on the streets in Austin?[/quote]
A drunken college football player is different than a violent felon who is a few days out of prison.

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Of course a woman can beat a man under certain conditions. A man untrained in Judo would lose to Rhonda in a Judo match. A man untrained in BJJ would lose to Kyra Gracie in a BJJ match. When you factor in size and strength differences they matter in the same way that they matter with men. The bigger and stronger the opponent the higher skill level the smaller person, male or female, will need to compensate.

The problem for women, and even men, is when you start going away from a sport context with specific rules and move towards “reality.” Being good, or even great, at Judo, BJJ, wrestling, or any other combat sport and/or combat art’s sport side, does not mean you know self-defense regardless of size and sex differences. That’s why it’s not hard to imagine a 135 pound male UFC fighter getting his ass kicked by a 225 pound guy who is “just” an experienced street fighter. [/quote]

This is also silly. Fighters fight. It’s what they do. I’ve never met a single competitive fighter who was “lost” in a street fight, but I’ve met several legitimate regular “tough guys” who got their asses handed to them in a ring. I’m not saying that being a trained professional automatically puts you on God Mode, but it definitely gives you the automatic upperhand in just about any violent altercation. Ever see the video of Roger Huerta fighting some massive black dude on the streets in Austin?[/quote]

Yeah, and that wasn’t just a massive black dude, that was allegedly Rashad Bobino, a former linebacker for the Texas Longhorns. His stats for his senior year listed him as 230 lbs, so you figure he had at least 60lbs on Roger. And if he was the type to knock out a girl in public, you kinda figure that wasn’t his first street fight either
[/quote]

No shit? Not only did he hit that chick, he completely sucker punched her as she was looking the other way, and she still didn’t fall. What a punk ass. Dude deserved more than to get his ass handed to him on camera.

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Of course a woman can beat a man under certain conditions. A man untrained in Judo would lose to Rhonda in a Judo match. A man untrained in BJJ would lose to Kyra Gracie in a BJJ match. When you factor in size and strength differences they matter in the same way that they matter with men. The bigger and stronger the opponent the higher skill level the smaller person, male or female, will need to compensate.

The problem for women, and even men, is when you start going away from a sport context with specific rules and move towards “reality.” Being good, or even great, at Judo, BJJ, wrestling, or any other combat sport and/or combat art’s sport side, does not mean you know self-defense regardless of size and sex differences. That’s why it’s not hard to imagine a 135 pound male UFC fighter getting his ass kicked by a 225 pound guy who is “just” an experienced street fighter. [/quote]

This is also silly. Fighters fight. It’s what they do. I’ve never met a single competitive fighter who was “lost” in a street fight, but I’ve met several legitimate regular “tough guys” who got their asses handed to them in a ring. I’m not saying that being a trained professional automatically puts you on God Mode, but it definitely gives you the automatic upperhand in just about any violent altercation. Ever see the video of Roger Huerta fighting some massive black dude on the streets in Austin?[/quote]
A drunken college football player is different than a violent felon who is a few days out of prison. [/quote]

Here this goes.

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Of course a woman can beat a man under certain conditions. A man untrained in Judo would lose to Rhonda in a Judo match. A man untrained in BJJ would lose to Kyra Gracie in a BJJ match. When you factor in size and strength differences they matter in the same way that they matter with men. The bigger and stronger the opponent the higher skill level the smaller person, male or female, will need to compensate.

The problem for women, and even men, is when you start going away from a sport context with specific rules and move towards “reality.” Being good, or even great, at Judo, BJJ, wrestling, or any other combat sport and/or combat art’s sport side, does not mean you know self-defense regardless of size and sex differences. That’s why it’s not hard to imagine a 135 pound male UFC fighter getting his ass kicked by a 225 pound guy who is “just” an experienced street fighter. [/quote]

This is also silly. Fighters fight. It’s what they do. I’ve never met a single competitive fighter who was “lost” in a street fight, but I’ve met several legitimate regular “tough guys” who got their asses handed to them in a ring. I’m not saying that being a trained professional automatically puts you on God Mode, but it definitely gives you the automatic upperhand in just about any violent altercation. Ever see the video of Roger Huerta fighting some massive black dude on the streets in Austin?[/quote]

Some fighters come from hard lives an crappy neighborhoods, those people will be familiar with real world violence and will do well in the street. Other fighters who are less familiar with real world violence may freeze or act completely uncharacteristicly (compared to how they act in their sport fights) due to the very different nature (and potential consequences) of real violence compared to sport fighting.

You also see a lot of sport fighters making critical mistakes whenever engaging in fights outside of the ring. For instance, in the ring they always attempt to control distance, always keep a good guard and attempt to protect themselves at all times, keep their chin tucked, blade their body to deny their opponent access to their vital targets, etc… But when you see them engaging in altercations outside of the ring they get right up face to face with their opponent, have their hands down by their sides, stand square, have their chin way up in the air, etc… Basically there is a total disconnect between what they are taught to do in the ring (good habits) and what they do when it’s real.

I think it would be fair to say that an mma fighter from today is generally not as well prepared for a “real” fight as fighters were when it was vale tudo.

BTW, Cro Cop recently tapped out to a headlock. A champion mma fighter was unable to defend himself against a basic “street” technique.

And speaking of bad habits: how about fighters placing a hand on the mat so they are technically grounded and can’t be kneed or kicked in the head.

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
I think it would be fair to say that an mma fighter from today is generally not as well prepared for a “real” fight as fighters were when it was vale tudo.

BTW, Cro Cop recently tapped out to a headlock. A champion mma fighter was unable to defend himself against a basic “street” technique.

And speaking of bad habits: how about fighters placing a hand on the mat so they are technically grounded and can’t be kneed or kicked in the head. [/quote]

Yup, that would definitely be a bad idea in a real fight. I actually like to purposely make people put their hand down while using a clinch to steer their head so they can’t defend against my knee. Totally illegal in MMA, but works great if you don’t have to worry about rules.

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
I think it would be fair to say that an mma fighter from today is generally not as well prepared for a “real” fight as fighters were when it was vale tudo.

BTW, Cro Cop recently tapped out to a headlock. A champion mma fighter was unable to defend himself against a basic “street” technique.

And speaking of bad habits: how about fighters placing a hand on the mat so they are technically grounded and can’t be kneed or kicked in the head. [/quote]

yup… i Miss the 90’s and PRIDE.

on the topic, no, Rousey would get slaughtered by Cain, she wouldn’t last one round against Cyborg.

[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
on the topic, no, Rousey would get slaughtered by Cain, she wouldn’t last one round against Cyborg.[/quote]

She’s more likely to last a round than Cyborg is. I’m not calling a win in one for Rousey but I will go on record that Rousey won’t be out in one round.

[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
on the topic, no, Rousey would get slaughtered by Cain, she wouldn’t last one round against Cyborg.[/quote]

I don’t know whether it’s one round or more, but I agree that Cyborg would mow throw Ronda like a John Deer through short grass. It would be ugly.

(And I’d love to see it.)

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
I think it would be fair to say that an mma fighter from today is generally not as well prepared for a “real” fight as fighters were when it was vale tudo.

BTW, Cro Cop recently tapped out to a headlock. A champion mma fighter was unable to defend himself against a basic “street” technique.

And speaking of bad habits: how about fighters placing a hand on the mat so they are technically grounded and can’t be kneed or kicked in the head. [/quote]
Making kicks and knees to downed opponents illegal is probably the single biggest thing that makes MMA unrealistic (beyond the fact that the ground is relatively soft and non abrasive). Bring back the headstomps and soccer kicks.

I understand why they made the change, but that single rule changed it from an all out fight to a sport fight. Honorable mention to blows to the back of the head being illegal and 12 to 6 elbows being illegal.

As everybody has stated before Rousey is simply attention whoring. Come on.
Mousasi is creaming all over her , he is only half way serious about this and a middleweight.
Now consider that Rousey is about A HUNDRED POUNDS lighter, 20cm shorter and has a reach that is ridiculous compared to Valesquez.

I don’t even want to know what happens when a 240pound male pro fighter punches a 140 pound girlie in the face.
Guess something’s gonna break, and that something is definitely not Cain’s fist.

[quote]Quiet Warrior wrote:
As everybody has stated before Rousey is simply attention whoring. Come on.
Mousasi is creaming all over her , he is only half way serious about this and a middleweight.
Now consider that Rousey is about A HUNDRED POUNDS lighter, 20cm shorter and has a reach that is ridiculous compared to Valesquez.

I don’t even want to know what happens when a 240pound male pro fighter punches a 140 pound girlie in the face.
Guess something’s gonna break, and that something is definitely not Cain’s fist.[/quote]

It’s going to be Cigano’s heart… oh wait! He prefers Tate.

[quote]Silyak wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
I think it would be fair to say that an mma fighter from today is generally not as well prepared for a “real” fight as fighters were when it was vale tudo.

BTW, Cro Cop recently tapped out to a headlock. A champion mma fighter was unable to defend himself against a basic “street” technique.

And speaking of bad habits: how about fighters placing a hand on the mat so they are technically grounded and can’t be kneed or kicked in the head. [/quote]
Making kicks and knees to downed opponents illegal is probably the single biggest thing that makes MMA unrealistic (beyond the fact that the ground is relatively soft and non abrasive). Bring back the headstomps and soccer kicks.

I understand why they made the change, but that single rule changed it from an all out fight to a sport fight. Honorable mention to blows to the back of the head being illegal and 12 to 6 elbows being illegal. [/quote]

I’d say there have been rules that made MMA a sport fight right from the onset:
-no weapons
-1 on one with no chance of multiples
-no biting
-no eye gouging

That said, I do agree that additional rules (like not being able to knee or kick a downed opponent in the head) have moved MMA further and further from a real fight and that the first few were much closer than what we currently have. But, that is also part of what has allowed MMA to become a more respected and mainstream sporting event (and therefore not only survived but thrived as a business).

If MMA would allow soccer kicks and stomps I would sign each and every petition to outlaw my favorite sport.

This is either ignorance or plain crazyness.

MMA is a sport and not real fighting.

A sport carries a certain civic responsibility.
We already have too much savage youngsters stomping people in the streets.

Real fighting aims at neutralizing the target. Depending o context, that means shaming, maming or even killing using everything at your disposal (see Sento’s post).

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
If MMA would allow soccer kicks and stomps I would sign each and every petition to outlaw my favorite sport.

This is either ignorance or plain crazyness.

MMA is a sport and not real fighting.

A sport carries a certain civic responsibility.
We already have too much savage youngsters stomping people in the streets.

Real fighting aims at neutralizing the target. Depending o context, that means shaming, maming or even killing using everything at your disposal (see Sento’s post).

[/quote]

Would it be crazy to say I think elbows are more dangerous than soccer kicks and stomps ?

[quote]kaisermetal wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
If MMA would allow soccer kicks and stomps I would sign each and every petition to outlaw my favorite sport.

This is either ignorance or plain crazyness.

MMA is a sport and not real fighting.

A sport carries a certain civic responsibility.
We already have too much savage youngsters stomping people in the streets.

Real fighting aims at neutralizing the target. Depending o context, that means shaming, maming or even killing using everything at your disposal (see Sento’s post).

[/quote]

Would it be crazy to say I think elbows are more dangerous than soccer kicks and stomps ?
[/quote]

I’d say yes, you are crazy. :slight_smile:

Elbows tend to cut people up bad, but the damage is mostly superficial. Soccer kicks and especially stomps can inflict massive amounts of concussive forces on the brain.