T Nation

Round Two for IronJoe

Hey everyone, its time for round two.

My previous summer cycle and my first was a big success in my books. I shortened it to 8 weeks, then did a short stasis and a taper, went from weighing 216 to 255 without too much change in bodyfat, most notably my legs grew 3.5 inches, my lats have a lot more flair to them and my calves still suck. Anyways I’ve been off for almost 8 weeks and im only down 10 pounds (245ish) and everything is back to “normal”

Anyways two things are true about winter for me. It’s easier to diet and more importantly its ski season. So I figured I would make the most of it and try cutting on cycle. Here it goes

Starting Nov. 1st (or 15th)

Weeks 1-10 - 125 TestE, 75 TrenE, EoD
weeks 10-12 - 500mg TestE
week 4 - 8 - 50mg Winstrol ED
week 8 - 12 - 400mg Masteron [Not sure how much how often yet becuase im not sure if its long or short ester]

Weeks 10 - 15 - 50/50 testE/Masteron
15 - 20 Test Taper

Now, I’m not sure what to run as my Anti-E or if i should even bother, I ran 1 month on 800mg TestE/week and had no side effects besides sleeping more, growing more and eating more. And I know winstrol/mast are not heavy for estrogen, Mostly My concern would be with the Tren and its lovely sides. I was thinking of letrzole just in case. Any other suggestions?

Would running 1mg of HCG week be beneficial?

How crazy are the pumps with Tren? I am worried about being crippled with calf pumps while skiing. Anyone had any experience?

Your advice is appreciated.


ack, screwed up my week plot.

Starting Nov. 1st (or 15th)

Weeks 1-10 - 125 TestE, 75 TrenE, EoD
weeks 10-12 - 500mg TestE
week 4 - 8 - 50mg Winstrol ED
week 8 - 12 - 400mg Masteron [Not sure how much how often yet becuase im not sure if its long or short ester]

Weeks 12 - 16 - 50/50 testE/Masteron
16 - 20 Test Taper

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

I’m really looking forward to testing some gear besides dBol and test. The Test/TrenE is a pre-mix so it’s only 1 shot EoD of with a .5CC each [1CC is 250 test, 150 Tren].

I guess I’ll have to order me up some HCG. Would a low dose of nolva be sufficient to control E, or should i use letz or Adex?

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

I would love to do that for my 2nd as well. Thanks for the layout. I will start procuring the necessary compounds. Mine would likely begin March 1. I may shoot you a PM, as I’m sure I’ll have plenty of questions.

Letrozole was my first choice. I may start with it and stop after a month to see how i feel without it. If i can get away without gimping my E levels i will. I felt a lot better during my last cycle without and anti-E, but better safe then sorry. I’ll let you know how the letz works.

Hopefully i can be online a bit more during this cycle and post a little more on how its going. I have to do new pics sometime soon so I’ll post those as well. Feel free to PM me about it.

T-6 days! Gotta go get me some more pokes!

I’ll post my diet / training within the next 48 hours. I think i got a pretty good idea of how to train while on, but only the wisest and stupidest of us think were right so I always appreciate others feedback/personal experiances/ideas and photos of half naked women.


WooHoo! The people in charge seem to like me. I ordered last friday and it arrived yesterday! So i celebrated by starting my cycle early. Front loaded 250/150 test/tren yesterday morning and this morning. So far no injection pain even with a 400mg/ml concentration. Last time i felt it after 5 hours.

So like I said, I’m going to be cutting this cycle. But I’m not starting till everything kicks in. For now I’m just going to get back into doing regular cardio and cutting out some of the salty stuff [^cry]

Sooooo here is the Training program as of now, I’m using the same method that i use when cutting normally just adding in a little more volume and such.

Day 1 - Legs

Front Squat (4 x 10 - 15)
Hack Squat (3 x 10
Stiff Leg DL(4 x 8 - 10)
Leg Ext (3 x 15)
Leg Curl (3 x 10)
Lunges (1 x 50)

Day 2 - Shoulders/Back

Db Press (4 x 10 - 15)
Ntrl Chin (4 x 10 - 15)
Shld Fly (3 x 15)
Rows (3 x 15)
Rear Delts (3 x 10)
Iso Row (2 x 20)

Day 3 - Calves/abs/cardio

Day 4 - Chest/Arms

Inc Press (4 x 10 - 15)
Dips (4 x 10 - 15)
Chest Fly (3 x 15)
Skull Crusher (3 x 15)
Bar Curls (3 x 15)
Hammer Curl (3 x 10 - 15)
Rope Ext (3 x 10 - 15)

Day 5 - Squat/Dead/pump

Squats - (4 x 10, 1 x 25)
Deadlift - (4 x 10, 1 x 20)
4 other exercises superset, of whatever i feel like :slight_smile:

Day 6 - calves/abs/cardio
Day 7 - cardio/cardio

So my cardio days are going to be only about 20 minutes of cardio to start, adding 5 minutes each week till i get to 40 minutes max. These will also be done first thing in the morning before breakfast. If my weight starts sticking I’ll add in 20 minutes max of cardio on my training days as well.

My question now is about diet. I’ve got dieting without help down pretty good, but with help not so experianced. Normally i diet starting at 4kcal a day and drop 200kcal a day if i stop losing weight (usually in the form of 50gr of carbs) I’ve always been a fan of increasing energy expenditure as better alternative to reduced calories.

As always, your advice and input is greatly appreciated.


Ok, I lied, the 400mg/ml feels like I’ve been hit by a truck, sitting down in class is not pleasant. I’m hesitant to do some of the other sites bedside glutes for now if this is how bad its going to be. I’ll pin my shoulders next time and see how it goes.

Soo, its day 3, I’m pretty sure its all in my head but my gym aggression has spiked, had a really good back/shoulders workout.

Cardio killed the injection pain, I guess cardio has some extra benefits. I think i might do 15 minutes of cardio everyday just to keep the inflammation down.

I’m down to 4.5kcal now, and I’ve cut out all wheat/dairy [except cottage cheese] so hopefully that will be enough to jump start my fat loss. I’m considering getting back on the AD diet for this cycle, currently doing carb cycling, we’ll see how it goes.

right now I’m 240 but I expect to jump up in weight a bit before dropping because of the test, and whatever tren is going to do.

How long until the tren Enth is in full swing? 2, 3 weeks? Everyone has told me that tren feels either amazing or like a truck hit you when it peaks so im excited either way.


Check out Randizo’s new cycle for tren info…

Very noticeable aggression increase. I can get through workouts that used to take me 45 minutes in about 30. my weight is up 5 pounds despite the reduced calories so everything is starting to work its magic.

As a fun side note on some good Halloween antics, the g/f decided to pick up the little lesbian dressed up in a bee outfit so I’m prett much on cloud nine because i got to make it with a lesbian and my girly last night. Never though it would actually happen. Photos will be up soon.

My appetite has taken a weird swing to, In the morning i can’t stop being hungry, but at night eating is almost painful and it’s easy to forget to eat, I’ve started using my watch to beep when i need to eat every 2 hours.

My girlfriends new friend from Halloween, Liz (gf) is the beermaid, April is the bumblebee.

[quote]ironjoe wrote:
My girlfriends new friend from Halloween, Liz (gf) is the beermaid, April is the bumblebee. [/quote]

Good on you Iron!! Way to enjoy Halloween…

So its been 9 days and I’m still waiting for everything to kick in. I’ve started doing my cardio in the morning, and I’m full into my diet so everything is going to plan.

I think I poked through a vein in my ass though because on my last shot I aspirated with no blood, but i have a lump where I shot. Its tender but its not painful and its not getting any worse so, I’m not too concerned. However I have been getting some lower back pain. Feels like an intense localized pump. It feels superficial so I think I just beat the crap out of my back. If it doesn’t subside within a few days I’ll go talk to my chiro and have him loosen up my back and if that fails, over to the doctors office.

Its really strange right now, I’ve always read that tren makes it really hard for people to sleep, I’ve been sweating like crazy at night but sleeping like a rock. I guess I should just hope it stays that way. I’ve been waking up after about 6 hours feeling fully rested, but I have a shake and force myself back to sleep for at least 2 more hours.

Oh ya, another questions. Is it possible to use winny as a kick start? I was thinking about waiting till everything else kicks in but I was thinking about starting the winny earlier then running the masteron longer. I think I’m just being impatient but if it is a viable option, please let me know.

Another thing. Tren makes beta alanine way more fun. I feel like I’m on fire every time i take it, with a dose that i used to not even feel!

So far, so good.


I’ve gotten a few PMs asking about my diet while on so I’ll post it now that its in full swing.

Wake up - 30gr Protein Shake + greens


Breakfast (within an hour)

1 cup egg whites
2 eggs
2 cups of mixed veggies
3/4 cup of cooked rice
1 serving of Effer-C

Meal 2

7oz of protein (beef/bison/turkey)
2 cups mixed veggies
1 tbs EFA

Meal 3

7oz of protein (beef/bison/turkey)
3/4 cup of rice
1 cup of veggies
1 tbs EFA

Meal 4

Protein Shake:
50gr Protein (25 whey / 25 casein)
2 tbs EFA
tsp cinnamon (:
Serving of Greens

Meal 5

7oz of protein (beef/bison/turkey)
2 cups mixed veggies
1 tbs EFA

Meal 6

7oz of protein (beef/bison/turkey)
2 cups mixed veggies
3 cups of Salad
1 tbs EFA
2 tbs balsamic vinegar

Meal 7 (if Im still awake)

Protein Shake:

50gr casein protein

If I go to sleep relatively soon after meal 6 I have the shake when I wake up in the middle of night.

I carb up on 2 twice a week where i add an extra 1/2 cup of rice to each meal

Pre/Peri/Post workout

pre - 25 gram whey


50gr Whey / 20g gr Casein
2 scoops 24/7

1 serving of Effer-C after workout as well

my workout times vary due to school, however whenever I do finish my workout, I have my post workout shake then after one hour continue back on the meal plan. I eat every 2.5 ~ 3 hours.

Other Supplements

Progressive Greens

-------(2 servings)
—45gr Waxy maize carb
—10gr L-Glutamine
—6gr L-Leucine
—6gr Beta Alanine
—10gr Creatine

—Vit C, Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium.

ECA stack

With everything it works out to be about about 3500 calories with everything. Usually I diet at about 4000kcal, but normally im also doing construction work and not on anything so I’ve cut my calories down accordingly.

Any major changes anyone would make?

I use a lot of EFA oils, but I really can’t stomach fish more then once or twice a week unless its sushi, but that gets expensive. And I eat a lot of red meat, because chicken makes me bloated, and most times I’m eating Bison Fast-Fry so they are very lean and uber tasty and low fat. Turkey is about the only white meat I can eat. Thank god I can eat the same damn food over and over and never get sick of it lol.

Excellent - it is a stronger man than i that can eat rice and veggies first thing in the morning! lmao!

I work well with numbers - so if you haven’t already, please could you describe your current and your goal weight, bf% and height?



Sorry I guess i should have put those in my original post.

240 lbs
my bf scale says 12% but i don’t believe it [my legs are leaner then the rest of me] so i’d say around 15%

I’m not sure what my goal weight is going to be. I’m dieting till I look contest ready. I’ve been competing for 3 years, This is my first time trying to diet with help. I was 190 for my last show. So I’m hoping to be around 200 pounds

My next show isn’t until November next year, so this is mostly a trial to see what I can and can’t do dieting with gear. Then also i would like to stay closer to my contest weight then i am now so that dieting takes 10 weeks and not 16 lol.

I LOVE eggs rice and veggies the morning. Its just one massive omelet of pure amazingness. morning veggies are usually onions, red bell peppers, mushrooms, and green onion. mmmmhhhhh

Looking forward to your imput.