[quote]rainjack wrote:
Viking69 wrote:
I have to disagree with rainjack here. Yes, in a way, test will taper itself, “cold turkey”.
P22 is suggesting taper the test in less dranatic way at hrt levels, but not high enough to continue suppression(50mg/week),until you feel your “boys” come back. I for one want to give it a try. Remeber once the world was flat. Name all the “gurus” you want, they have basically been coping each other for 30 years now.
There is room for everyone to disagree. My issue with the great P-22 is he is close-minded and thinks his way is the only way. You want to taper? Knock yourself out. Bushy is one of my best friends on the boards, and we disagree. He is not “my way or the Highway”, and neither am I.
It would be very disappointing if everyone on here agreed with everything that is said. That is not how knowledge is attained. [/quote]
I never said my way is the only way, what I have said is that tapering off is the best approach- when you factor in avoiding a crash, keeping your gains, and minimizing side effects and withdrawal symptoms.
Now speaking from experience, and knowing full well the dangers of using hcg, and the folley that most BB get themselves into by begining and ending their pct early due to underestimating the time it takes AAS to clear their system; I am convinced this approach is the better, more successfull approach.
For example - how many first-time users do cycles of deca, and then a conventional clomid or nolva pct that ends before the deca has even cleared their system, leaving them still in a suppressed state, with a test crash,and estrogen rebound from using nolva as an anti E during cycle?
The answer is too many, and the methods I have laid out eliminate this problem.
This method works so well that yes, I may become over-zealous in promoting this method, but it is with the simple motive of helping people.
And if I happen to see another method, for example the hcg being promoted, which I know from experience to be inferior, and much more risky being pushed, I am going to do my best to disuade the individual from taking that person’s advice.
As far as HCG use, yes it has it’s uses, but I believe very strongly that the risks, heavily out weigh the benifits of it’s use. Hcg in my opinion should not be administered without the supervision of an MD, and the availability of regular blood work.
I believe it is irresponsible for these internet ‘guru’s’ to be advocating it’s use without equally discussing the risks of it’s use.
Never mind the fact that these protocols are being given to first-time users of steroids, the vast majority who know nothing about pharmacology, to even understand the decisions and/or the implications of those decisons they are making.
And to think that the entire reason for the use of hcg is testicular atrophy, which in fact doesn’t even occur. There is no loss of tissue in the area that magically reappears once you inject hcg, the only difference is a decrease in blood flow to the area, as blood flow is regulated by tissue metabolism - the more a body part ‘works’, the higher it’s requirements for nutrients and gas exchange. At the end of a cycle, when the hpta is no longer suppressed, and the testes begin to pick up the load on manufacturing testosterone, and maturing sperm, metabolic demands increase, which stimulates and increase in blood flow to the area, and consequently the testes become more enlarged - more engorged with blood.
The whole argument of ‘keeping your testes in working order while on cycle’ is one big farce, of a fallacy which supports an entire hcg protocol, that too many get sucked into. The fact of the matter is they are actually chronically subjecting their testes to high doses of synthetic LH on a regular basis, which isn’t needed, and can’t be good.
The problem is there is too much of this ‘hard core’ poly-pharmacy approach going around these boards, and it isn’t needed. The KISS approach applies even to steroid cycling.
Now if there are BB out there that want to experiment with the hcg approach, that’s fine, I obviously can’t make anybody do anything, however, I will be obligated to share the tapering method, on everythread I see, (that I have time to respond to) as a credible, and sane and safer alternative.
There are too many people on these boards that just rehash information they got from somewhere else, without actually thinking it through. If I have to be the guy who calls B.S. when I see it, so be it.
As for Rainjack, you are entitled to your opinions, however it was you who insulted me first, I was just reacting to your post, which is a natural thing to do…it is however interesting to note, when you say you have a life to get back to, that I did have difficulting wading through your 5501 posts to find any pics which I quickly gave up on…