T Nation

Rookie Needing Advice

Getting ready to start very first cycle. Never messed with it before. Caucasian male 28 years old 170 pounds 6 foot 1 inch height. Not seeing results from regular lifting and eating fairly good. Was thinking of ordering test or danibol 10 oral. Just looking for advice and what not to do!

The advice will be pretty universal. Run test only for your first cycle. Although dbol is largely well-tolerated, it’s usually best to stick to one compound so you can gauge how you respond to it.

Questions you’ll want to have answers to before you start:

How long have you been training?

Are you eating enough to gain naturally?

What’s your pct look like?

What AI are you planning on running with your cycle?

How long will the cycle be?

You’ll need to make sure your plan is really laid out before you take that first shot. Make sure you have specific goals for what you want to get out of it. Etc.

I have been lifting for a few months and eating well and plenty of food intake…ive always been tall and skinny…just want to add 20 or so pounds of muscle…

You cannot start a cycle after lifting for a few months. Seriously. You have a lot of room left to grow before you need steroids.

Even like something small like 10-20 mg of dbol orally?

Do you know why dbol is used? It’s great for strength. A lot of guys also report an enhanced mood. But largely it packs on mass. Watery, watery mass. It goes away as fast as it comes on. So six weeks of dbol gives you that extra 20lbs. Then you run your pct for four weeks. And when that’s all over you’re left with roughly the same body you had before. Lot of effort for little reward. I believe there’s a place for dbol, but not as a stand-alone.

I really wanted to stick with oral but what would you suggest if all I planned on doing was a single cycle then to keep some of the results afterwards?

Everything iron said.

Also make sure you have EVERYTHING in hand before you start.

For PCT you will need a serm. The main two are clomid and Nolvadex. For a testosterone only cycle (you need to stick with testosterone ONLY) you should be ok with just good old Clomid however some guys react to it and act like pregnant women on it. You should read up on both and weigh the options. Since you are new to this your source resources might be limit and be ultimately forced to go with the only one you can get a hold of.

For AI (aromatase inhibitor) there are three main ones, arimidex, aromasin and femara. There is no need for you to use femara. Read up on all three anyways. Even if you do a fairly conservative dose of testosterone and you think you can get away without an AI, please don’t. You do not want to find out you are one of those guys that grow gyno from just looking at aromatizing compounds and not have an AI on hand. If you just have to run your cycle and not take an AI you should still have some on hand. Notice I said that at least twice…

Most guys on here don’t want to try and lay out a cycle for someone else. No one wants to do your research for you but I will provide the previously mentioned info just because it does point you in the right direction in regards on how to start the process.

Fair warning your starting point might get some comments. Please look at your diet specifically protein and amino acids. When people approach me in the gym and ask what should they be taking to help themselves I always start with amino acids, glutamine and then protein. For a reference point I am currently sitting at 233 and I eat a gram of protein per pound in just bars, shakes, and edamame beans. That doesn’t count regular food that’s high in protein or the 6-10 hard boiled eggs I shove down my throat through out the day.

You stated a few months of working out and a goal of 20 lbs of mass. A few months is not long enough of a base so you might get that 20 lbs with just food and finding what works for you in the weight room. I started my journey in working out at 18 and it took a few years of different things before I found what worked for me. But I was a dumb kid who listened to his friends that “knew what they were doing.”

Chances are even if you get those pounds with just food you will still think about a cycle. So I leave you with this; A first cycle should be a testosterone only cycle. I recommend a long estered testosterone like cypionate or enanthate and that should be run at the shortest time frame of 10 weeks, really 12 but you can push to 15 weeks. I also recommend 25 gauge needles of 1.5 inches. With the thicker oils the 25 gauge keeps you from injecting too fast, remember this is most likely your first time self injecting and going too fast with the injection you can get bad PIP (Post Injection Pain, read up). With 1.5 inches you can do your glutes or thigh, I went thigh myself for first cycle. If you go thigh then just use 1 inch out of the 1.5 inches. Also look up the actual spots to do the injections and study the pictures.
Remember testosterone ONLY for first cycle. You need to see how you react with possibly 5 times the natural amount of a hormone you already have in you. Adding extra hormones the first time is asking for trouble.

Please note the flow of topics in my response. I stated with all the supporting ancillary compounds info that everyone forgets about when they look at a first cycle. Then I commented on how you might do it naturally. And then I closed with the reality of a possible 15 week commitment involving 1.5 inch needles you have to put into yourself.

This is not a light decision. Please proceed with intelligence and extreme care.

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What he said. All of it.

But here’s a cycle plan, just because you seem like a nice guy and everyone here really does look out for each other.

Test E 500mg/w split 250 twice/w
12 weeks
Arimidex for AI
Dosage is hard to say, your body will respond differently to test than the next guy. I need 50% more Adex than my doc originally prescribed for my TRT. I’m evidently someone who aromatises more heavily.
Probably between 1-1.5mg/w for it, but you’ll need to dial it in.

PCT-start two weeks after your last shot of test; four weeks in total
Clomid 100mg/d weeks one and two. 50mg/d weeks three and four. Or something like that. I’ve seen higher recommended dosages, but I usually err on the side of taking only as much as you need to get the job done.

You guys were getting back and forth as I wrote my dissertation.

NO ORAL ONLY cycles. The main reason is actually something I forgot to put in my novel up there. Any and all AAS’s suppress your natural testosterone production. An oral only will provide you with a hormone that will work if it is used with testosterone. If you take only an oral your body will stop production of testosterone that means all sorts of side effects, read up. The big one most guys fear like no other is libido and possible erectile dis-function. So if you take an oral only you risk all of that and the hormone doesn’t do enough on it’s own to have any lasting effects, meaning no actual gains. Think about that along with the liver stress that you have to endure for no actual appreciable effects. If used with at least a TRT level of dosage some orals do have lasting effect.

The thing I forgot to mention is there is a real possibility you could be one of those unlucky genetic losers that take one cycle of testosterone and have some sort of permanent suppression, so read up on what you are risking. Realize that although it is only a very small percentage of guys that permanently shutdown for ever from one cycle just know it’s possible that the 20 lbs goal could cost you the rest of your life being dependent on TRT.

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Is anyone going to suggest that the OP may not have his diet and training in order? I mean the statement of “Not seeing results from regular lifting and eating fairly good” seems to at first glance indicate a fairly low level of detail to justify hopping on the gear.
I would like to understand the OP’s idea of ‘regular lifting’ and ‘eating fairly good’.

If you scroll up you will see my dissertation and in there I go over diet.
I don’t like telling people they should or should not do something so I use what I like to term enlightening facts. I bring up all the ancillary compounds they will need for a cycle, you know the stuff that most of them don’t realize they need until it’s too late. That way if they do decide to disregard everyone else’s suggestions to not cycle then they at least have the basic knowledge available for dealing with the reality of blindly cycling AAS’s. I also try to bring up the 'you could end up requiring TRT for the rest of your life. In there I mention what there diet needs to look like weather they cycle or not. Then I make sure I state it is not a light decision to cycle, it’s a serious choice with some serious ramifications and please don’t jump into it.

Basically I try to dump all the stuff they should have already know before they came here thinking of a cycle. My honest hope is they read it and then go research and ultimately get either overwhelmed or hard core committed. For those looking for easy gains I hope they turn and run from the idea but remember the part about what a proper protein intake looks like so they at least get something from the experience. For the ones that decide they want it even more then I hope they take the time to cycle properly. By properly I mean with as much of a natural base as their genetics will allow.

All that being said I am still working on how to present my information to either scare them away or open their eyes as to how to do it properly. I don’t have much use for manipulation in my life but I should be better at it with the list of women I have dated over the years.

I honestly believe you and I want the same things for these guys that come looking for easy gains it’s just we go at it a little differently.

Full disclosure, I wish none of them would make the jump…that way I am even more singular in life than I already am.

Two of us did. I explicitly said he cannot start a cycle after only lifting for a few months.

I actually agree with your approach and didn’t mean to have my post come off as critical to you or @iron_yuppie directly. It’s just frustrating to continuously see these types of posts from young guys who are so new to the iron and thinking they need to jump on the gear after a few months of lifting. Just twenty minutes of searching these forums would give them all the answers they need and they simply can’t be bothered to even devote any time to that so I can only imagine the limited effort they’re putting into the stuff that matters (actual diet and training).

I think I’m going to start assembling links to all the threads started by the guys that inevitably come back to these forums and post stuff like
"Help! Is this gyno?"
"Ten months of Deca dick"
and on
and on
and on.

To the OP @foxboy450
I know you’re ultimately going to do whatever the hell you wanna do and at 28 you’re more than old enough to make that decision for yourself but if all you want to do is pack on 20 pounds of muscle and you’ve only been training for a few months then I promise you can easily do that with the right training program and diet. I suggest looking at Jim Wendler’s 5-3-1 for starters; it’s dead easy (from a programing standpoint) doesn’t require a ton of fancy machines (if your working out at home) and will absolutely make you cockstrong and pack on some muscle.
If you’re dead set on hopping on the gear then the info @now_i_care and @iron_yuppie provided is sound. The only thing I would add is I would like you have bloods done before, during and after the cycle. The first blood test will be your record of what "normal’ was for you before the cycle. Three of 4 weeks in I would check bloods again just to see how you’re aromatizing the T and if you need to adjust your AI up or down. Finally I would have bloods drawn a few weeks after your PCT to see if you recovered properly.

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You didn’t come off critical at all. I am in love with woman who knows English as her second language. She primarily speaks Spanish at home and work so dating me is her first real total English immersion. I have come to realize just how ambiguous the English language is. Honestly after rereading what I had wrote I feel I should have been more stressful about the diet and training.

I feel you on the compiling the list for the new guys. Half the time I just want to respond with here is my profile name, click it and go read everything I ever said to anyone and if you still think you should cycle I will respond in kind.

I tend to only respond to these my first cycle threads as the rest of the threads are usually about stuff that’s beyond my experience.

I will close with, thank you for reminding me and the rest of us about stressing blood work. I actually ran my first cycle forgetting to do it. Luckily I had had it done about two months prior so I was able to get those for baseline.