Here is the thing almost EVERY X player, coach etc will say that, at the position of QB there is Brady and Peyton. I’m not talking Team or wins or SB’s. I’m talking about these two guys ability to perform at the position of QB, there is no body close. Bree’s and Rogers are 3 and 4 for sure.
Tony Romo has never done shit with his career. Did he even manage to win a playoff game yet?
Eli’s got two rings, two Super Bowl MVPs, and led his team to the biggest upset since 1968.
He’s a Hall of Famer now. Romo will be forgotten quickly once he retires.
But twice.
Sorry.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Tony Romo has never done shit with his career. Did he even manage to win a playoff game yet?
Eli’s got two rings, two Super Bowl MVPs, and led his team to the biggest upset since 1968.
He’s a Hall of Famer now. Romo will be forgotten quickly once he retires.[/quote]
Career success doesn’t always favor the better player. Eli is the QB of one of the best organizations in sports. Romo has Jerry Jones.
Roethlisberger has more rings and SB appearances than Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees. Doesn’t make him a better QB, but it does make him more successful.
Holy shit I can’t believe I’m defending Tony fucking Romo. For the record, I agree that Eli is the better QB. I’m just playing devil’s advocate here.
[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
Career success doesn’t always favor the better player. Eli is the QB of one of the best organizations in sports. Romo has Jerry Jones.
Roethlisberger has more rings and SB appearances than Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees. Doesn’t make him a better QB, but it does make him more successful.
Holy shit I can’t believe I’m defending Tony fucking Romo. For the record, I agree that Eli is the better QB. I’m just playing devil’s advocate here.[/quote]
True, but Eli has done incredible, and won two rings, with two completely different casts of characters in two different systems.
The first, of course, was the more run-heavy, defense-reliant 2004 team, but last year’s was the pass-happy, shootout style offense that he had to run with Nicks and Cruz because the defense couldn’t really stop anyone.
He’s a great quarterback. Top 5 right now, and if he continues like this, maybe wins more Super Bowl, he could be into the top QB’s of all time.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
Career success doesn’t always favor the better player. Eli is the QB of one of the best organizations in sports. Romo has Jerry Jones.
Roethlisberger has more rings and SB appearances than Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees. Doesn’t make him a better QB, but it does make him more successful.
Holy shit I can’t believe I’m defending Tony fucking Romo. For the record, I agree that Eli is the better QB. I’m just playing devil’s advocate here.[/quote]
True, but Eli has done incredible, and won two rings, with two completely different casts of characters in two different systems.
The first, of course, was the more run-heavy, defense-reliant 2004 team, but last year’s was the pass-happy, shootout style offense that he had to run with Nicks and Cruz because the defense couldn’t really stop anyone.
He’s a great quarterback. Top 5 right now, and if he continues like this, maybe wins more Super Bowl, he could be into the top QB’s of all time.
[/quote]
He has had the same coach and offensive system his whole career and now you say Eli is better than Dan Marino, interesting . So what about his record and play in 2010?
I’d take Eli over Romo anyday. Couple years ago it would have been the other way around.
This is the dead zone of sports for me right now. July 25th cannot get here soon enough.
I don’t care how many SB’s Eli HELPS to win, he will never be greater than Dan Marino.
Then again I am biased towards QB’s from Pennsylvania. Joe Willie, Joe Montana, Dan Marino…
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
He has had the same coach and offensive system his whole career and now you say Eli is better than Dan Marino, interesting . So what about his record and play in 2010?[/quote]
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You must be into politics, because I NEVER said he was better than Dan Marino. Who the fuck said that?
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He has not had the same offensive system. Different offensive coordinators in two different years with two different systems. So… no.
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He threw shitloads of picks, yea. But he does it in the Brett Favre way… dude’s a gambler to a T. That’s his style of play.
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He’s not gonna be a top five QB all time, but maybe a Top 20 or 30 if he wins another Super Bowl or continues down this path. That’s not being irrational.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
He has had the same coach and offensive system his whole career and now you say Eli is better than Dan Marino, interesting . So what about his record and play in 2010?[/quote]
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You must be into politics, because I NEVER said he was better than Dan Marino. Who the fuck said that?
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He has not had the same offensive system. Different offensive coordinators in two different years with two different systems. So… no.
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He threw shitloads of picks, yea. But he does it in the Brett Favre way… dude’s a gambler to a T. That’s his style of play.
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He’s not gonna be a top five QB all time, but maybe a Top 20 or 30 if he wins another Super Bowl or continues down this path. That’s not being irrational. [/quote]
If Eli gets another ring he’s in the top twenty for sure. I think he’s in the same boat as Big Ben. I feel they both need to win three to make it into the HOF.
[quote]bond james bond wrote:
I don’t care how many SB’s Eli HELPS to win, he will never be greater than Dan Marino.
Then again I am biased towards QB’s from Pennsylvania. Joe Willie, Joe Montana, Dan Marino…[/quote]
Bias can be blinding. Joe Willie didn’t have but one game on his pro resume and in no way, shape or form should he be in the HOF.
Eli has had success when it counted the most and it is hard to not call him a top tier QB.
He’s a HOF’er, as is the others mentioned. Eli, Peyton, Rodgers, Drew, Brady. Heck another HOF’er is K Warner. Favre’s bust is ready too. And Big Ben is just a matter of retiring as to when he gets in.
Now if another argument is to be had, who is a first ballot? Big Ben and Favre may have a first ballot snub, as a matter of bias and ass hattery, deserved or not. The others, it may just be a matter of when they retire and the size of the crowd with them.
One of my favorite all time Eli jokes…
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
He has had the same coach and offensive system his whole career and now you say Eli is better than Dan Marino, interesting . So what about his record and play in 2010?[/quote]
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You must be into politics, because I NEVER said he was better than Dan Marino. Who the fuck said that?
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He has not had the same offensive system. Different offensive coordinators in two different years with two different systems. So… no.
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He threw shitloads of picks, yea. But he does it in the Brett Favre way… dude’s a gambler to a T. That’s his style of play.
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He’s not gonna be a top five QB all time, but maybe a Top 20 or 30 if he wins another Super Bowl or continues down this path. That’s not being irrational. [/quote]
How long had Gilbride been there?
Plus you stated Eli has two SBs, so your argument is that is why he is a great QB, Marino has none thus Eli is better.
And I would agree if he wins another he goes HOF, because his statistics are not good for his career.
[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
[quote]bond james bond wrote:
I don’t care how many SB’s Eli HELPS to win, he will never be greater than Dan Marino.
Then again I am biased towards QB’s from Pennsylvania. Joe Willie, Joe Montana, Dan Marino…[/quote]
Bias can be blinding. Joe Willie didn’t have but one game on his pro resume and in no way, shape or form should he be in the HOF.
Eli has had success when it counted the most and it is hard to not call him a top tier QB.
He’s a HOF’er, as is the others mentioned. Eli, Peyton, Rodgers, Drew, Brady. Heck another HOF’er is K Warner. Favre’s bust is ready too. And Big Ben is just a matter of retiring as to when he gets in.
Now if another argument is to be had, who is a first ballot? Big Ben and Favre may have a first ballot snub, as a matter of bias and ass hattery, deserved or not. The others, it may just be a matter of when they retire and the size of the crowd with them.[/quote]
Broadway Joe isn’t worthy in a sense because of his numbers but what he did for the game got him over the hump and no man has rocked a fur coat better than him lol.
Warner I’m not so sure. That black hole he fell into as a Giant is hard to discount.
I still belive Ben needs another ring to be a first ballot HOF’r and this is coming from a lifelong Steeler fan. Bradshaw set the bar pretty high with four.
Never mind looked it up Gilbride has been Eli’s QB coach first three years then OC since also Eli had same HC his whole career.
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Plus you stated Eli has two SBs, so your argument is that is why he is a great QB, Marino has none thus Eli is better.
And I would agree if he wins another he goes HOF, because his statistics are not good for his career. [/quote]
You must be a Republican. That’s Republican logic. I never, ever said he was better than Marino, or that my sole way of judging Hall of Fame value was about Super Bowl rings. Stop putting words in my mouth and making crap up.
Eli is a Hall of Famer right now. He’s got two Super Bowl MVPs - not just being on a Super Bowl winning team like Trent Dilfer, two MVPs. There’s four quarterbacks with a Super Bowl MVP who aren’t in the Hall - that’s it. And Eli has TWO.
Besides that, very few QBs have ever won multiple MVP awards - who are they? Bradshaw, Montana, Bart Starr, Tom Brady. Pretty solid right there.
Hell, this article says it best and gives statistic after statistic on why he’s going to be a sure-fire Hall of Famer, probably first ballot.
Manning is 8-3 in the playoffs. Two SB victories.
“A quarterback has won the Super Bowl MVP in 25 of the 46 contests, with 19 different signal callers taking home the hardware. Of those 19 quarterbacks, nine are in the Hall of Fame, five are active players and oneâ??Kurt Warnerâ??retired too recently to be up for induction.”
Here’s one for the fantasy football nancies who can never look past statistics:
"Through seven and a half seasons as the Giants’ starting quarterback, Manning has amassed 27,579 passing yards, putting him on pace to surpass 40,000 yards by the end of the 2014 season.
There are just 13 quarterbacks in NFL history to pass for more than 40,000 yardsâ??14 if you count Tom Brady, who is 21 yards away from the milestone. Of those 14 quarterbacks, all but three are either in the Hall of Fame or will be as soon as they are eligible.
Yes, it’s now a passing league and Matt Hasselbeck is less than 7,000 yards away from reaching the 40,000-yard threshold before Manning. But Manning has more passing yards than anyone to come into the NFL since the turn of the century, not named Brady or Brees."
and
“Manning does have 20 more regular-season touchdown passes than Roethlisberger and 23 more than Rivers, which is roughly an entire season more than either contemporary quarterback.”
Sorry man. This dude’s in.
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Never mind looked it up Gilbride has been Eli’s QB coach first three years then OC since also Eli had same HC his whole career. [/quote]
Jesus so now he’s got to have a different coach, a different coordinator, and a different Head Coach to make it… what? More valuable?
He’s won with two very different offenses - one that was not so reliant on him under one set of coordinators, and one that was nearly TOTALLY reliant under him with a different set of coordinators.
You just don’t have a lot of evidence against him.
So FI what you are saying is that if JJ would have done a deal and taken Eli then Dallas would have won 2 SBs with him?
And you being a Giants fan would give him props for it?
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Never mind looked it up Gilbride has been Eli’s QB coach first three years then OC since also Eli had same HC his whole career. [/quote]
Jesus so now he’s got to have a different coach, a different coordinator, and a different Head Coach to make it… what? More valuable?
He’s won with two very different offenses - one that was not so reliant on him under one set of coordinators, and one that was nearly TOTALLY reliant under him with a different set of coordinators.
You just don’t have a lot of evidence against him.[/quote]
Look up the running game numbers in playoffs last year for Giants almost doubled the regular season. Sorry but he has not had different systems it is a running play action O, he has never been in a west coast or run 5 wide system. Different players yes, but that is on every team.
Also not attacking Eli he has the rings and the $.
But as a football guy I am talking about body of work and the position