T Nation

Roger Clemens on 60 Minutes

I didn’t catch the taped phone conversation…anyone have a link to it?

[quote]dk44 wrote:
Only thing I didnt like about the phone tape, (may have been for legal reasons), is if I am Clemens I’m gonna be yelling “why in the fuck did you lie, you cocksucker” and he never hinted at that, to me it was more of a “why did you rat me out, we were boys.” If your gonna tape the call get him to admit he lied about it. [/quote]

I agree, but the premise for the phone call was an email McNamee sent to Clemens saying how his son was dying in the hospital or something. I don’t think he felt like flipping out on the guy because of this.

my opinion is that this is some fucked up shit and people need to get real.

this is baseball…a game we watch for entertainment… not world politics, not law enforcement, not health care, not investment banking, not parenting, not about 1,000 or more other institutions where lies have real consequences on other people’s lives. who the fuck cares if roger clemens is a shit-talking bald-faced liar…and a poor one at that ? jeesus in my very first little-league at bat the catcher told me the pitcher was wild and was gonna throw at my head. he lied.

the standard of proof in baseball is a positive drug test. those are the rules. apparently the rules aren’t good enough for mitchell and selig and anyone else who’s anti-clemens anti-bonds etc… who are the real “cheaters” here anyway ? a bunch of fucking numbnuts owners and senators who want some spotlight and all of the limpdick fans they can get on their side by turning baseball into a popularity contest on the same level as people magazine. whatever it is it ain’t about baseball.

I really could give a shit whether he used or not. But I found him completely unconvincing. The only way he tried to refute the allegations was by making broad generalizations about steroids that aren’t even true. He had no good responses to even the softball questions that Mike Wallace threw out.

Congress needs to get real anyhow. They are the fucking legislators. They need to establish an across-the-board policy and standardized testing procedures that will apply to all professional sports. Like we don’t have more important things to worry about.

But if they were serious, that’s what they would do. Since they haven’t done that, they need to shut up and stop wasting taxpayer resources with these ‘investigations’.

[quote]phox wrote:
dk44 wrote:
Only thing I didnt like about the phone tape, (may have been for legal reasons), is if I am Clemens I’m gonna be yelling “why in the fuck did you lie, you cocksucker” and he never hinted at that, to me it was more of a “why did you rat me out, we were boys.” If your gonna tape the call get him to admit he lied about it.

I agree, but the premise for the phone call was an email McNamee sent to Clemens saying how his son was dying in the hospital or something. I don’t think he felt like flipping out on the guy because of this.[/quote]

The attorney (Hardin) said that Roger had to phrase his comments in a certin way so as not to be leading. Notice also that Macnamee never once accused Roger of lying either.

50x

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Congress needs to get real anyhow. They are the fucking legislators. They need to establish an across-the-board policy and standardized testing procedures that will apply to all professional sports. Like we don’t have more important things to worry about.

But if they were serious, that’s what they would do. Since they haven’t done that, they need to shut up and stop wasting taxpayer resources with these ‘investigations’.[/quote]

The government needs to get their noses the fuck out of sports. Name one fucking successful policy that the government has implemented. That’s what I thought.

If the government keeps fucking with baseball, it is going to wind up being the AmTrak of American sports - if it’s not there already.

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
I really could give a shit whether he used or not. But I found him completely unconvincing. The only way he tried to refute the allegations was by making broad generalizations about steroids that aren’t even true. He had no good responses to even the softball questions that Mike Wallace threw out. [/quote]

alot of people say they could care less if he used or not but then are so quick to pile on …i don’t get it. clearly clemens is not a politician or a celebrity or even a good speaker. he’s is waaay out of his element in that role.

but why should he be good @ being in the spotlight ? he’s a baseball player and he’s already proven himself to be one of the very best…at baseball. the public and the sportswriters who are all piling on him now are changing the game because they don;t LIKE him personally, judging him by completely different rules like he’s britney spears or something. it’s like the only way people will give him any respect now is if he “comes clean like andy pettitte”.

none of this has anything to do with baseball.
if you’re talking baseball his results have already spoken. if you’re talking court of public opinion in a world run by wannabe wish i could’ve been- should’ve been-would’ve been sportswriters i suppose clemens just isn’t geeky enough to be one of the cool kids.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Congress needs to get real anyhow. They are the fucking legislators. They need to establish an across-the-board policy and standardized testing procedures that will apply to all professional sports. Like we don’t have more important things to worry about.

But if they were serious, that’s what they would do. Since they haven’t done that, they need to shut up and stop wasting taxpayer resources with these ‘investigations’.

The government needs to get their noses the fuck out of sports. Name one fucking successful policy that the government has implemented. That’s what I thought.

If the government keeps fucking with baseball, it is going to wind up being the AmTrak of American sports - if it’s not there already. [/quote]

i completely agree. this whole situation is so ass-backward. politicians and writers are destroying baseball and all sports for that matter. seriously baseball was just fine until all of this shit hit the fan.why the fuck would anyone want to become an athlete and submit themselves to year round random drug testing ? to fill out a “wherabouts form” documenting your location for everyday of the year to facilitate this . so some greasy little drug tester out fishing can come interrupt your family dinner and take your piss ? this is the road people are voting for when they say congress should be involved. this is what is coming when you rubber stamp even more testing than they already do. drug testing for kids will be standard. all assumed guilty until proven innocent…and even then you can’t rise too high above the average, or be too much of an individual before congress gets jealous of your star status and wants a piece of your press coverage.

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[quote]rainjack wrote:

This is the problem. You have no fucking clue if Clemens did anything. Not a lick of proof. None. You have the word of a guy that was threatened with prison if he didn’t talk.
[/quote]

Alright, this is my big fucking problem- when it comes down to prosecuting the Mafia, no one has any problem taking the word of a rat. But all of a sudden, MacNamee is seen as not credible because he was threatened with jail time…

They sure believed Kevin Weeks, Sammy the Bull, and all the other motherfuckers who were under the threat of improisonment for not talking…

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
I really could give a shit whether he used or not. But I found him completely unconvincing. The only way he tried to refute the allegations was by making broad generalizations about steroids that aren’t even true. He had no good responses to even the softball questions that Mike Wallace threw out. [/quote]

What do you think the press and public would think if he came out and talked about steroids as if he was as knowledgeable as many of the users on here are?

We all (well, the majority of us, here) know that steroid use isnt bad as long as you know what you’re doing and you’re old enough to have a legit reason to use.

Shit, I gave a speech in my communications class as my final grade about why steroids should be legal. As a fairly muscular 19 year old I was accused of using. Imagine what Roger Clemens, one of the greatest pitchers in the MLB would have been accused of.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
rainjack wrote:

This is the problem. You have no fucking clue if Clemens did anything. Not a lick of proof. None. You have the word of a guy that was threatened with prison if he didn’t talk.

Alright, this is my big fucking problem- when it comes down to prosecuting the Mafia, no one has any problem taking the word of a rat. But all of a sudden, MacNamee is seen as not credible because he was threatened with jail time…

They sure believed Kevin Weeks, Sammy the Bull, and all the other motherfuckers who were under the threat of improisonment for not talking…[/quote]

I think those guys were brought in to corroborate other evidence.

No one can be convicted on just the word of a third party. McNamee telling everyone that Clemens juiced should carry no weight without other evidence.

You are equating organized crime with cheating in baseball.

Think about that, and then get back to me when it sinks in.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
rainjack wrote:

This is the problem. You have no fucking clue if Clemens did anything. Not a lick of proof. None. You have the word of a guy that was threatened with prison if he didn’t talk.

Alright, this is my big fucking problem- when it comes down to prosecuting the Mafia, no one has any problem taking the word of a rat. But all of a sudden, MacNamee is seen as not credible because he was threatened with jail time…

They sure believed Kevin Weeks, Sammy the Bull, and all the other motherfuckers who were under the threat of improisonment for not talking…

I think those guys were brought in to corroborate other evidence.

No one can be convicted on just the word of a third party. McNamee telling everyone that Clemens juiced should carry no weight without other evidence.

You are equating organized crime with cheating in baseball.

Think about that, and then get back to me when it sinks in.

[/quote]

Oh stop. I am not equating them at all, and you know that.

What I am saying is that at certain times people will take the word of a crook to indict, and on others, they won’t. You sound like one of the crybaby hypocrite Yankee fans (though I doubt you are, but you sure got the tone right).

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
rainjack wrote:

This is the problem. You have no fucking clue if Clemens did anything. Not a lick of proof. None. You have the word of a guy that was threatened with prison if he didn’t talk.

Alright, this is my big fucking problem- when it comes down to prosecuting the Mafia, no one has any problem taking the word of a rat. But all of a sudden, MacNamee is seen as not credible because he was threatened with jail time…

They sure believed Kevin Weeks, Sammy the Bull, and all the other motherfuckers who were under the threat of improisonment for not talking…[/quote]

those guys broke actual laws that had policy and penalties in place. that’s not the case here. also it seems to me that everyone IS willing to take the word of the rat. i haven’t seen a single article supporting clemens on this one.

the hypocrisy of all of this is what’s truly disgusting for its dishonesty. baseball has an established standard of proof and that standard is a positive test. period. those are the rules. rules that meanwhile all of the owners and commissioner and court of public opinion are willing to ignore. jeesus even if they had a positive test for clemens the penalties are nowhere near all of this “banned from baseball” and “ineligible for h.o.f” talk that’s going on.

these are the penalties :

the first positive test will result in a suspension of up to ten days. the second positive test will result in a suspension of thirty days. the third positive test will result in a suspension of sixty days. the fourth positive test will result in a suspension of one full year. the fifth positive test will result in a penalty at the discretion of the comissioner. players will be tested at least once per year, with a chance that several players can be tested numerous times per year.

so you think he’s guilty ? hit him with a suspension and get on with it. any other opinion has nothing to do with baseball. sports illustrated and espn.com have more in common with cosmo and people magazine than anything else.

the worst part of all of this is how the players are taking all of the heat. if the public feels so ripped off by players juicing why are they not asking for their ticket money back ?

Don’t forget this classic Clemens moment of truth telling:

Clemens’s 2000 season was punctuated by a pair of notorious moments involving New York Mets catcher Mike Piazza. During a July 8, 2000, game between the Mets and the Yankees, Clemens threw a high inside fastball to Piazza which bounced off Piazza’s hand and hit him squarely in the head. Piazza had previously enjoyed great success as a hitter against Clemens (including a grand slam against Clemens one month earlier), which was widely seen as Clemens’s motivation.

The incident and its aftermath received intense media coverage. Piazza bitterly criticized Clemens. And when both the Yankees and the Mets reached that year’s World Series, there was great anticipation regarding the two men’s first confrontation since the beaning.

In Piazza’s first at-bat of Game 2, his bat shattered, sending a large piece of the broken bat shard flying in Clemens’ direction. Clemens picked it up and threw the broken bat down toward the first base line�??and near a jogging Piazza, missing him but clearing the benches of both teams.[10] Clemens later claimed that he was “fielding” the broken bat, having mistaken it (in his state of heightened adrenaline) for the baseball.

His explanation was widely ridiculed,[11] in part because pitchers fielding baseballs hit in fair territory don’t typically throw them just to the left of home plate: Mets pitcher Al Leiter observed that “[i]f he felt that way, shouldn’t he have thrown it to [Yankees first baseman] Tino [Martinez]?” (Clemens responded that upon realizing the “ball” to be a bat fragment, he threw it away in frustrated confusion.) Ultimately, Clemens was not ejected from the game, although he was later fined $50,000.

Just Saying. - DK

[quote]dk44 wrote:
Don’t forget this classic Clemens moment of truth telling:

Clemens’s 2000 season was punctuated by a pair of notorious moments involving New York Mets catcher Mike Piazza. During a July 8, 2000, game between the Mets and the Yankees, Clemens threw a high inside fastball to Piazza which bounced off Piazza’s hand and hit him squarely in the head. Piazza had previously enjoyed great success as a hitter against Clemens (including a grand slam against Clemens one month earlier), which was widely seen as Clemens’s motivation.

The incident and its aftermath received intense media coverage. Piazza bitterly criticized Clemens. And when both the Yankees and the Mets reached that year’s World Series, there was great anticipation regarding the two men’s first confrontation since the beaning.

In Piazza’s first at-bat of Game 2, his bat shattered, sending a large piece of the broken bat shard flying in Clemens’ direction. Clemens picked it up and threw the broken bat down toward the first base line�??and near a jogging Piazza, missing him but clearing the benches of both teams.[10] Clemens later claimed that he was “fielding” the broken bat, having mistaken it (in his state of heightened adrenaline) for the baseball.

His explanation was widely ridiculed,[11] in part because pitchers fielding baseballs hit in fair territory don’t typically throw them just to the left of home plate: Mets pitcher Al Leiter observed that “[i]f he felt that way, shouldn’t he have thrown it to [Yankees first baseman] Tino [Martinez]?” (Clemens responded that upon realizing the “ball” to be a bat fragment, he threw it away in frustrated confusion.) Ultimately, Clemens was not ejected from the game, although he was later fined $50,000.

Just Saying. - DK[/quote]

dude… all baseball players are liars. this is why they have umpires.

[quote]swivel wrote:
dk44 wrote:
Don’t forget this classic Clemens moment of truth telling:

Clemens’s 2000 season was punctuated by a pair of notorious moments involving New York Mets catcher Mike Piazza. During a July 8, 2000, game between the Mets and the Yankees, Clemens threw a high inside fastball to Piazza which bounced off Piazza’s hand and hit him squarely in the head. Piazza had previously enjoyed great success as a hitter against Clemens (including a grand slam against Clemens one month earlier), which was widely seen as Clemens’s motivation.

The incident and its aftermath received intense media coverage. Piazza bitterly criticized Clemens. And when both the Yankees and the Mets reached that year’s World Series, there was great anticipation regarding the two men’s first confrontation since the beaning.

In Piazza’s first at-bat of Game 2, his bat shattered, sending a large piece of the broken bat shard flying in Clemens’ direction. Clemens picked it up and threw the broken bat down toward the first base line�??and near a jogging Piazza, missing him but clearing the benches of both teams.[10] Clemens later claimed that he was “fielding” the broken bat, having mistaken it (in his state of heightened adrenaline) for the baseball.

His explanation was widely ridiculed,[11] in part because pitchers fielding baseballs hit in fair territory don’t typically throw them just to the left of home plate: Mets pitcher Al Leiter observed that “[i]f he felt that way, shouldn’t he have thrown it to [Yankees first baseman] Tino [Martinez]?” (Clemens responded that upon realizing the “ball” to be a bat fragment, he threw it away in frustrated confusion.) Ultimately, Clemens was not ejected from the game, although he was later fined $50,000.

Just Saying. - DK

dude… all baseball players are liars. this is why they have umpires.[/quote]

Word! hahaha

It’s not like hes growing a third ear or pulling trucks with his teeth. Everyone knows that stuff turns your tendons into dust anyway.

[quote]Dirty_Bulk wrote:
It’s not like hes growing a third ear or pulling trucks with his teeth. Everyone knows that stuff turns your tendons into dust anyway.[/quote]

I got a kick out of that.

Dust? Really Roger?