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Rippetoe's for 5 Months, Thoughts on Progress?


#2

Don’t you get hungry from all of that lifting?


#3

[quote]twojarslave wrote:
Don’t you get hungry from all of that lifting?[/quote]

Will eating more really help that much? I am eating at 350 calories above maintenance at the moment, surely that is enough? Whenever I eat a 500 calorie above maintenance diet I tend to add on unnecessary fat…


#4

[quote]renatus wrote:
Squat … I really struggled with these today.

Deadlifts … I am currently doing a reset

Bench Press … I am quite disappointed with this.

Military Press: I can’t get past 52.5kg for some reason. … This was after a reset. I am just frustrated with this tbh.

… I know my next stage is Madcows but I am unsure of when to move on to it. [/quote]
I’d say you’re fine to move on now, if for no other reason than you seem to be hitting speedbumps of varying significance on every main lift. It’s good that you’re addressing things like your bench form, but being frustrated and/or stalled and/or having to reset everything isn’t helping anything. Move on.

Where’s the power clean, by the way?

For reference, what did you weigh in February?

EDIT: [quote]Will eating more really help that much?[/quote]
It could. Undereating can certainly hinder recovery, which will impact progress.

It can be a fine line, sure. But there are some variables at play - your current bodyfat, the quality/macros of those extra calories, and extra training/conditioning, etc.


#5

[quote]renatus wrote:

[quote]twojarslave wrote:
Don’t you get hungry from all of that lifting?[/quote]

Will eating more really help that much? I am eating at 350 calories above maintenance at the moment, surely that is enough? Whenever I eat a 500 calorie above maintenance diet I tend to add on unnecessary fat…

[/quote]

I’m not the guy to give you advice on diet specifics. But yes, it sounds like you aren’t eating enough to drive strength gains. Everyone is different, but you should have a lot more than 5 months of linear gains. Starting Strength is a good program that will get you strong if you follow it, assuming your diet and rest is adequate.

You are not strong yet, so I would look everywhere besides the lifts you are doing for answers. If you are following the program and giving your best effort in the gym then you have that element covered.

Nutrition, rest and recovery come to mind as the most obvious culprits. Fix what is broken and I predict that you can ride the Starting Strength gain train for a lot longer.


#6

[quote] For reference, what did you weigh in February?
[/quote]

In February I weighed 143 pounds, weighed in the morning before breakfast. I weighed in at 163 this morning. Again, before breakfast. Fat gain so far, to my surprise, has been minimal.

I do feel fatigued when I am out of the gym, I need to sleep a lot and I am generally in a state of DOMs at times.

The vast vast majority of my diet are very healthy foods (fruit, vegetables, meat, wholegrains, whole milk… stuff like that).

N.b. I am just not sure if I should stop Rippetoes now or give it a little more time. Ideally I would like to increase my bench, squat and deadlift a bit more first before I feel happy enough to move onto Madcows. E.g. Adding 10kg on all of those lifts. So: Bench 75kg 3x5, Deadlift 140kg 1x5, Squat 132.5kg 3x5. Even then… I think this programme can be milked for more linear progression gains. It must surely be diet… so, the catch is that I will have to gain some fat to gain some more muscle and strength at this point. This is the point in my opinion where a bit more fat gain is necessary because strength and muscle gains are harder to come by after the absolute newbie stage.


#7

[quote]twojarslave wrote:

[quote]renatus wrote:

[quote]twojarslave wrote:
Don’t you get hungry from all of that lifting?[/quote]

Will eating more really help that much? I am eating at 350 calories above maintenance at the moment, surely that is enough? Whenever I eat a 500 calorie above maintenance diet I tend to add on unnecessary fat…

[/quote]

I’m not the guy to give you advice on diet specifics. But yes, it sounds like you aren’t eating enough to drive strength gains. Everyone is different, but you should have a lot more than 5 months of linear gains. Starting Strength is a good program that will get you strong if you follow it, assuming your diet and rest is adequate.

You are not strong yet, so I would look everywhere besides the lifts you are doing for answers. If you are following the program and giving your best effort in the gym then you have that element covered.

Nutrition, rest and recovery come to mind as the most obvious culprits. Fix what is broken and I predict that you can ride the Starting Strength gain train for a lot longer.

[/quote]

Yes, it must be the food. I am training very hard in the gym and my technique has improved a lot. I am squatting deep and now my bench press form is much improved. I need to assess how much I need to eat above maintenance now, it is a bit of a tough question.


#8

Your (temporary) roadblock aside, 20lbs without adding a lot of chubb and going from the bar to the weights you are working with is very good progress.

Great work.

FWIW, I’m on month 10 of linear strength gains, but I am a 34 year-old fat guy trying to slim down, so we’re obviously working different angles here. About 1/2 of those 10 months were at a deficit that allowed me to lose fat, about half of them have been me kicking the can down the road on the diet and just settling for strength gains.

Simply stated, I still get stronger when I eat well (I just don’t lose fat anymore when I get stronger, no more serving two masters for this fat boy).

Chris has given you great advice as well, and he’s seen more than his share of people in your situation. You’re doing great and I’m sure you will figure it out, one way or another.


#9

Quick note, consider Rip’s own advice regarding when to switch. (From his AMA on Reddit a while ago). Note his mention of “everything necessary.” I’d suggest bumping calories, to maximize recovery, to be one step not yet taken.

[quote]renatus wrote:
Fat gain so far, to my surprise, has been minimal.[/quote]
Sounds like you’ve put on some solid weight. Nice work. The fact that you’ve gained minimal fat is another good sign, and an indicator that you should be fine to push it a bit more.

These are general indicators that ample nutrition is lacking.

(2Jar cover your eyes)…

Renatus, what, exactly, did you eat yesterday?

It’s entirely possible to eat “very healthy foods” and still undereat in terms of performance. Too little protein or too few healthy fats, for example, would cause issues even if total calories were in place.

Rippetoe’s belief has always been that some fat gain is an acceptable compromise for major strength gains, and the Starting Strength program is built from that perspective. Unless you’re a fat dude right now, a little more bodyfat is a short-term investment in long-term gains.


#10

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

(2Jar cover your eyes)…

Renatus, what, exactly, did you eat yesterday?

[/quote]

Besides being easy pickings for joke material, that is probably the single best question to ask 90% of people who are attempting to change their body composition.


#11

[quote] Renatus, what, exactly, did you eat yesterday?

It’s entirely possible to eat “very healthy foods” and still undereat in terms of performance. Too little protein or too few healthy fats, for example, would cause issues even if total calories were in place.

[/quote]

Oats, milk, chicken breast, fish, eggs, rice, wholegrain bread, fruit, veg, olive oil, ice cream. Can’t remember the rest. I get one gram of protein per pound of bw, I should probably increase this now just to be sure I am getting enough protein. Fats I get enough of too, I can’t remember the calculation but I am sure I am getting enough fats. I will redo the calculations and make sure I am eating plenty.


#12

I didn’t realize ripp’s actual name until just now. For the last couple years, I’ve been calling him RippLetoe… even google didn’t correct me.

I’ve come to realize that many off SS’s shortcomings are also strengths as a diagnostic. Hitting walls too early indicates nutritional or other issues. Yes, the program leaves the arms lagging, but this forces people to focus on the back with pullups and chinups, and use proper form.

It gets tough towards the end, but you may still have a few months in you. It’s generally advised that you deload 3 times (after 3 consecutive stalls each). I found that switching to 5 x 3 for the OHP really helped me get a tolerance for heavier weights; I believe this is the wichita falls variation… I ran 5 x 3 through 2 deloads, 3 x 5 through another 1-2, and finished back w/ 5 x 3. Some folks also recommend switching programs at the upper body after you’ve deloaded a couple times and OHP and bench stall at the same time.

But yeah… look at your nutrition first.


#13

Nice progress. In my case it was hard for me to increase my deadlift. My overheadpress was fine but i was struggling with deadlifts. I had split programs in the past and i realized that working out without knowledge led to imbalances of muscles. Recently i am following Eric Cressey’s neonderthal no more to correct my posture. The program includes lots of glutes,abs and back exercises. Im trying to learn how to use theese muscles correctly(especially the glutes). Hopefully it will correct my posture and technique and my lifts will continue to increase.


#14

[quote]twojarslave wrote:

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

(2Jar cover your eyes)…

Renatus, what, exactly, did you eat yesterday?

[/quote]

Besides being easy pickings for joke material, that is probably the single best question to ask 90% of people who are attempting to change their body composition.
[/quote]

WEDYEY


#15

[quote]renatus wrote:

Oats, milk, chicken breast, fish, eggs, rice, wholegrain bread, fruit, veg, olive oil, ice cream.[/quote]
Fixed.

But yeah, definitely take the time to re-calculate what you’re eating and be certain you’re not inadvertently overestimating, and then build off of that. Weekly progress, on the scale and in the gym, should continue on pace. Keep your eye on your mid-to-long term goal (presuming you do have one) and don’t sweat a reasonable amount of fat gain.

[quote]Claudan wrote:

[quote]twojarslave wrote:

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
(2Jar cover your eyes)…

Renatus, what, exactly, did you eat yesterday?[/quote]
Besides being easy pickings for joke material, that is probably the single best question to ask 90% of people who are attempting to change their body composition. [/quote]
WEDYEY[/quote]
And we can thank Dan John for that.


#16

^March 2013. 164 pounds.

July 2014 - [quote]renatus wrote:
Here are my lifts as of this week:

Squat: 122.5kg: 5,4,3.
Deadlifts: 130kg 1x4
Bench Press: 65kg 3x5
Military Press: 52.5kg 3x5
163 pounds [/quote]
So, I was reading up to see what’s what, and found this wrinkle. Turns out you’ve actually made little to no progress in bodyweight and strength in almost a year and a half, and I now feel like this thread was basically a waste of everyone’s time. Neat. Good luck.

Turns out this wasn’t true either. What the fuck, man?


Jan 5 2013, Thread Title: Rippetoe’s Bench Press Wall
Quote: “I started working out at the end of September. I got to 50kg bench press at the start of November.”


#17

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
What the fuck, man?
[/quote]

Yeah, what the fuck, man?

I don’t get people. It is no wonder that so many people can’t get results when they can’t even be honest with themselves, let alone some strangers on the internet who they are asking for “help”.


#18

[quote]twojarslave wrote:

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
What the fuck, man?
[/quote]
I don’t get people. It is no wonder that so many people can’t get results when they can’t even be honest with themselves, let alone some strangers on the internet who they are asking for “help”.
[/quote]

Kinda fascinates me. It’s like going to the doctor to ask why you have Problem X, then lying to the doctor when he starts asking questions that will help him diagnose the cause of Problem X. The only way he can properly diagnose you is if you answer the damn questions honestly. Otherwise, he’ll give you a wrong diagnosis.

When you ask Internet strangers for help, it’s probably best if you’re honest about the background info. If you did something stupid or failed to progress in the last year, ok, maybe we’ll give you a hard time about it, but that stuff is necessary to get good advice. Otherwise, we’re flying blind and making recommendations that might be completely invalid.


#19

I think another part of it is that, when they ask for help/advice online, some people think free advice is worth just that much.

If it costs nothing to ask, and if it’s easy enough to start five different threads in the course of a month (like OP did throughout Jan of '13), there’s nothing really invested which means responses will be seen as equally unimportant whether or not they’re legit, useful replies coming from experienced, knowledgable lifters and/or professionals who made the decision to invest time and energy into addressing a given issue.


#20

After reflecting on this for a bit, I see this kind of bullshit all the time. I even lived it for a period. Most of the people in my life are some combination of fat, weak, out-of-shape, drinking too much, cigarette-smoking people who live their life shuffling from one seat to the next.

The easiest way to stay that way is to lie to yourself and pretend that everything is okay. If you have an accidental moment of self-reflection and realize the danger you are placing yourself in, well, some booze will take care of that stray thought in very short order.

The people in my life who do not fall into the above categories are the folks I know from my gym. And even in that group there are people who wrap themselves in a thick cloak of cognitive dissonance. People who know what works but do other things anyway and then wail away about lack of progress.

What is especially baffling is that the OP has discovered this website, which has just about all of the information one will need to reach whatever fitness goal you may have in mind. With that veil lifted, he’s still here lying to himself and the entire internet for…

…what purpose? That’s what I still don’t get.

Fucking people man.


#21

[quote]twojarslave wrote:
The people in my life who do not fall into the above categories are the folks I know from my gym. And even in that group there are people who wrap themselves in a thick cloak of cognitive dissonance. People who know what works but do other things anyway and then wail away about lack of progress.
[/quote]

You know, I’ve been “exercising” for a long time, but only recently have I really been honest with myself about how my current “training” is really building towards my goal or not.

I had a long period after college where I drifted from one thing to the next - running, then P90X, then back to barbell lifting, then running more, then biking, and so forth - staying quite “fit” all the while, sure, but for much of that time I changed goals every couple of weeks, inevitably convincing myself that whatever new “thingy” I adopted was going to be THE secret that finally turned me from “guy that’s in good shape” to “Sixpack McStudderson.”

Even now, I’ve only recently resolved to really hammer two particular goals (the pullup challenge and kettlebell challenge described in my training log) and in just a couple of weeks since making that resolution, I’ve noticed some small physique improvements (after a year or so of slow-but-steady backsliding that left me with a little less muscle and a little more lard than I’m used to) that have me itching for more. I’m all for variety in training, but a little bit of honesty with yourself & focus can do wonders.