Rippetoes and Lacking Muscle Growth/Stimulation

You mean to say that you did a powerlifting routine, and didn’t get muscles like a bodybuilder???

Very strange :slight_smile:

You’ll be glad to know that building muscle is very simple and is largely determined by diet.

Do about 2-3 exercises per bodypart (mostly multi-joint moves), about 1-3 bodyparts per workout, train a bodypart somewhere between 1-3 times a week (whichever allows you to get stronger…most people fall somewhere in the middle), train to failure on about 1-2 sets per exercise

Main principles:

Get stronger in a medium rep range (e.g. 8-10) > when strength slows down (e.g. less than 1% progression on loads each week), eat more and get bodyweight up > when bodyfat get’s out of “control” then do a little trim/damage control

Feel the load, don’t just move/bounce it. Don’t move up in load until you “own it” with a half decent range of motion (doesn’t have to be 100%, but make sure it’s more than 25% lol)

Whichever bodyparts are lagging, train more.


In other words, a 3-way split done 5x/week is a good starting place

Example 3-way:

Chest/Triceps
Back/Biceps
Legs/Shoulders

Example days/week:

Mon: Chest/Tris
Tue: Back/Bis
Wed: Legs/Shoulders
Thu: —
Fri: Chest/Tris
Sat: Back/Bis
Sun: —

Mon: Legs/Shoulders

Etc

how is this, the 4 day split

[quote]aurnob wrote:

how is this, the 4 day split[/quote]

You really want to take bodybuilding advice from this guy?

That program looks dumb.

My advice would be to take inventory of all the basic bodybuilding exercises you need to be doing, and then split them up as best you can. That is what I did, and a majority of other decent lifters on this website. It’s not about “the routine”, it’s about getting good at the exercises that work the best on your body. I would never do “free motion chest presses” or “bulgarian squats” just because Nick Tumminello told me to do so.

[quote]mr popular wrote:
You really want to take bodybuilding advice from this guy?

That program looks dumb.

My advice would be to take inventory of all the basic bodybuilding exercises you need to be doing, and then split them up as best you can. That is what I did, and a majority of other decent lifters on this website. It’s not about “the routine”, it’s about getting good at the exercises that work the best on your body. I would never do “free motion chest presses” or “bulgarian squats” just because Nick Tumminello told me to do so.[/quote]

lol very good response.

To thread starter take a look at mr populare’s thread best of tnation, a loot of good stuff there.

Read the bodybuilding bible thread, read what other bigger people have done. Then you try to make a program with exercises that give you bang for the bucks. When you have done this you can post it in this thread and ask (Or just ask one of the more experienced guys on this forum by message).

[quote]bob84 wrote:

[quote]mr popular wrote:
You really want to take bodybuilding advice from this guy?

That program looks dumb.

My advice would be to take inventory of all the basic bodybuilding exercises you need to be doing, and then split them up as best you can. That is what I did, and a majority of other decent lifters on this website. It’s not about “the routine”, it’s about getting good at the exercises that work the best on your body. I would never do “free motion chest presses” or “bulgarian squats” just because Nick Tumminello told me to do so.[/quote]

lol very good response.

To thread starter take a look at mr populare’s thread best of tnation, a loot of good stuff there.
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding/the_best_of_tnation

Read the bodybuilding bible thread, read what other bigger people have done. Then you try to make a program with exercises that give you bang for the bucks. When you have done this you can post it in this thread and ask (Or just ask one of the more experienced guys on this forum by message).
[/quote]

For whatever it’s worth, I think lots of stuff in ‘the bodybuilding bible’ should be taken with grains of salt. It was written by a guy who doesn’t “bodybuild” anymore and proudly gloats it all around he boards. And I don’t agree with a majority of his principles, to be honest.

OP, stop being lazy. Stop trying to be spoon fed everything. Guys like you have the mindset that finding the “right program” is going to get you the gains you want, but in actuality it’s the people who listen to their bodies the best and acclimate their training to what works best for them or not.

Create an EXTREMELY basic template (like a split.) Choose a few exercises for each muscle group that you know you like and work well for you, and go in and play around with rep ranges, volume, etc. Do this for however long it takes you to figure out the ‘optimal’ program. Do that for years, consistely.

[quote]aurnob wrote:

i did calves 3 days a week for about a month to no avail, maybe they did grow a little bit but not sure.
[/quote]

Well gee, you did try it for one whole month so clearly you did all you could.

Is this a fucking joke? You haven’t been training long enough, haven’t put any real effort into this and you want results yesterday.

Good luck with that mindset. It is the very reason the rest of these mutherfuckers who can’t break 170lbs are still small.

Also, watch WHOM you take advice from. if they don’t have much muscle, why are you listening to them? Bodybuilding isn’t rocket science so turning this into a massive science experiment doesn’t equal more progress. In fact, it is usually quite the opposite.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]aurnob wrote:

i did calves 3 days a week for about a month to no avail, maybe they did grow a little bit but not sure.
[/quote]

Well gee, you did try it for one whole month so clearly you did all you could.

Is this a fucking joke? You haven’t been training long enough, haven’t put any real effort into this and you want results yesterday.

Good luck with that mindset. It is the very reason the rest of these mutherfuckers who can’t break 170lbs are still small.

Also, watch WHOM you take advice from. if they don’t have much muscle, why are you listening to them? Bodybuilding isn’t rocket science so turning this into a massive science experiment doesn’t equal more progress. In fact, it is usually quite the opposite.[/quote]

yeah i know sounds lame, but the program did strictly outline (starting strength) not to mess with it, so i just got rid of calf raises when i could squat again.
when i start my new split,i shall do calves consistently and for years on end.

so wat im plannin to do right now is just make a 4 day split, within which

[quote]SSC wrote:

[quote]mr popular wrote:
Stop all this nonsense and just do a traditional bodybuilding program.[/quote]

Thank you.

For God’s sake, why does everyone need to be spoon fed what numbers they’re “supposed” to be lifting? Good idea OP, take a program that doesn’t let you get acclimated to your body’s strengths and weaknesses at all, see poor results, and then switch to another one. Let us know how that works out for you.

And for the record yes, I am 100% against 5/3/1… because it’s not a goddamn bodybuilding routine no matter how it’s broken down.[/quote]

ok

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:

[quote]SSC wrote:

[quote]mr popular wrote:
Stop all this nonsense and just do a traditional bodybuilding program.[/quote]

Thank you.

For God’s sake, why does everyone need to be spoon fed what numbers they’re “supposed” to be lifting? Good idea OP, take a program that doesn’t let you get acclimated to your body’s strengths and weaknesses at all, see poor results, and then switch to another one. Let us know how that works out for you.

And for the record yes, I am 100% against 5/3/1… because it’s not a goddamn bodybuilding routine no matter how it’s broken down.[/quote]

ok
[/quote]

sarcasm^

[quote]SSC wrote:

[quote]mr popular wrote:
Stop all this nonsense and just do a traditional bodybuilding program.[/quote]

Thank you.

For God’s sake, why does everyone need to be spoon fed what numbers they’re “supposed” to be lifting? Good idea OP, take a program that doesn’t let you get acclimated to your body’s strengths and weaknesses at all, see poor results, and then switch to another one. Let us know how that works out for you.

And for the record yes, I am 100% against 5/3/1… because it’s not a goddamn bodybuilding routine no matter how it’s broken down.[/quote]

Disagree with you buddy, not entirely but I think you can make it work fine.

A lot of people don’t like to think for themselves, I used to be one of those guys surfing the web for programs. I would generally try something and find myself back to where I was before hand. I train based on how my body responds to training and I know my body best. But I guess if I were a lazy individual I’d enjoy being spoon fed and we have plenty of those type of programs, not saying they don’t work but I don’t think anyone will achieve out of this world results, blindly following other peoples programs and not training based on their own needs.

But, 5/3/1 is a pretty basic strength progression program which is what getting bigger and stronger is all about. Keep shooting for PRs…it has you hitting failure in all different rep ranges changing weekly. Accessory lifts are picked based on lagging bodyparts and weaknesses. I think the 5/3/1 philosophy isn’t a bad one for getting bigger and stronger, it’s pretty much the basics for all bodybuilding and strength routines.

[quote]bob84 wrote:
I agree with mr popular.

Read this:

Bodybuilding bible (great thread!)

If you are unsure about exercise selection, read this.

[/quote]

that Thibs article was excellent. so right now im split between havin a once per week per muscle split or twice per week
so should i do like a upper lower split, or just antagonistic muscle split

[quote]aurnob wrote:
that Thibs article was excellent. so right now im split between havin a once per week per muscle split or twice per week
so should i do like a upper lower split, or just antagonistic muscle split[/quote]

start with once a week and do a lot of damage, if that doesn’t work switch to more frequency so 2 times a week, more than that I would question whether other things are in place to get you growing. You gotta think but don’t paralyze.

[quote]MEYMZ wrote:

[quote]aurnob wrote:
that Thibs article was excellent. so right now im split between havin a once per week per muscle split or twice per week
so should i do like a upper lower split, or just antagonistic muscle split[/quote]

start with once a week and do a lot of damage, if that doesn’t work switch to more frequency so 2 times a week, more than that I would question whether other things are in place to get you growing. You gotta think but don’t paralyze.[/quote]

oh ok, i just went to the gym before u gave this reply.

i decided on a upper/lower body split two times a week (coming from starting strength).

so i do upper on monday and thursday, lower on tuesday and saturday.

i came up with a rough design coming from many basics inferences:

UPPER 1:

Bench flat : 2x10
Incline Bench : 3x12
PEC DECK: 15 rep pump set (sometimes)
Dumbell Rows: 3x10
Lat Pulldowns: 2x12
Bicep Curls: 2-3x10 (depending on level of energy, feel,etc)

Lower 1:

Squat - 3x10
Lunges - 2x12
Leg Extensions : 1-2x15
Standing Calf Raise: 3x12

Upper 2:

Push Press - 3x10
Arnold Press/ Dumbell Press - 2x12
Lateral Raises - 2x12
Pullups - 3x Subfailure
Dips - 3x Subfailure
Skull Crushers : 2x10

Lower 2:

Deadlift : 2x8
Goodmorning : 3x10
Seated Calf Raises: 4x12

Any sugestions or changes.

I did lower body 1 today, good change of pace from rippetoes, fkn intense pump and i could feel everything working. had to really lower weights to hit rep range targets. overall, quite a intense workout

and in case you guys start rippin on me for my split, i pikd upper lower coz goin 4 days a week is a stretch for me, and also im reading everywhere a once a week split is not ideal as progress is limited

Dude, you’re like an excitable kid trying new stuff out, and too hyperactive to listen to what people are saying lol

THE main thing about your program should be whether it’s allowing you to progress in strength with decent rep range…nobody is going to tell you EXACTLY what’s gona work for you. Sure, they can say roughly, but learn how to read your own feedback. Not everyone’s body recovers at the same rate, let alone the difference between different bodyparts.

Take for example myself in the past; I found that 2 maximal sets for my arms done twice a week was starting to aggravate my elbows and besides that, strength wasn’t progressing as fast on them as other bodyparts…so I reduced the sets to one maximal set - problem solved. Didn’t need to log on here and ask someone else.

Once again; ages ago, I trained chest once a week and found progress poor, so I trained it twice a week - problem solved…no need to ask someone else.

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
Dude, you’re like an excitable kid trying new stuff out, and too hyperactive to listen to what people are saying lol

THE main thing about your program should be whether it’s allowing you to progress in strength with decent rep range…nobody is going to tell you EXACTLY what’s gona work for you. Sure, they can say roughly, but learn how to read your own feedback. Not everyone’s body recovers at the same rate, let alone the difference between different bodyparts.

Take for example myself in the past; I found that 2 maximal sets for my arms done twice a week was starting to aggravate my elbows and besides that, strength wasn’t progressing as fast on them as other bodyparts…so I reduced the sets to one maximal set - problem solved. Didn’t need to log on here and ask someone else.

Once again; ages ago, I trained chest once a week and found progress poor, so I trained it twice a week - problem solved…no need to ask someone else.[/quote]

yes, i pretty much understood that askin other people if a split was good or not was stupid as it is my body and i must personalise accroding to how my body responds.
i’m just askin for general critique or in the case ive made a blatant mistake

[quote]aurnob wrote:
yes, i pretty much understood that askin other people if a split was good or not was stupid as it is my body and i must personalise accroding to how my body responds.
i’m just askin for general critique or in the case ive made a blatant mistake[/quote]

Not trying to put you off seeking advice, rather, just saying not to lose sight of the fact you can learn a lot from yourself.

First thing I’d say about your program is there’s a little lack of direct work for shoulders…but this sort of thing goes with the territory of upper/lower splits. Also, you have quite a bit of pressing in there compared to pulling (which is bad for the upper back/rear delts…may lead to posture problems/inbalance in the future).

IMO, Upper/lower splits are ok for beginners, but if you want a more “rounded” physique, you’ve got to give muscle groups more justice (and that doesn’t mean doing a thousand pressing exercises lol). Give your back and shoulders the attention they deserve.

Personally, I feel that in order to progress on an exercise, you’ve got to do it often enough. I don’t like this whole “do barbel bench press for chest 1, and then dips for chest 2” philosophy. Doing tons of different exercises for the same bodypart on different “body part days” just didn’t work for me…and IMO, it’s inspired by the whole “sports” crowd/gurus who seem to think that bodybuilding needs to be “sports specific”

[quote]its_just_me wrote:

[quote]aurnob wrote:
yes, i pretty much understood that askin other people if a split was good or not was stupid as it is my body and i must personalise accroding to how my body responds.
i’m just askin for general critique or in the case ive made a blatant mistake[/quote]

Not trying to put you off seeking advice, rather, just saying not to lose sight of the fact you can learn a lot from yourself.

First thing I’d say about your program is there’s a little lack of direct work for shoulders…but this sort of thing goes with the territory of upper/lower splits. Also, you have quite a bit of pressing in there compared to pulling (which is bad for the upper back/rear delts…may lead to posture problems/inbalance in the future).

IMO, Upper/lower splits are ok for beginners, but if you want a more “rounded” physique, you’ve got to give muscle groups more justice (and that doesn’t mean doing a thousand pressing exercises lol). Give your back and shoulders the attention they deserve.

Personally, I feel that in order to progress on an exercise, you’ve got to do it often enough. I don’t like this whole “do barbel bench press for chest 1, and then dips for chest 2” philosophy. Doing tons of different exercises for the same bodypart on different “body part days” just didn’t work for me…and IMO, it’s inspired by the whole “sports” crowd/gurus who seem to think that bodybuilding needs to be “sports specific”[/quote]

yes. i’ll prob do this split for a couple of weeks, gauge my
progress and then if need, go to a a more individualized split

Nothing wrong with picking a basic template and sticking to it for now. As you gain experience in the gym and figure out who is worth listening to and who isn’t, your training will evolve. Who you listen to at the beginning will be crucial to how you do at this, so don’t be one of those guys that waste their first few years of training listening to whoever churns out the latest article.

Again, the most important thread for you to read and understand on this site is the PX sticky at the top of this forum. That will show you how to think about this thing long term. To learn new techniques and lifts, read Maraudermeat and Cephalic_Carnage’s respective threads.

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:

[quote]SSC wrote:

[quote]mr popular wrote:
Stop all this nonsense and just do a traditional bodybuilding program.[/quote]

Thank you.

For God’s sake, why does everyone need to be spoon fed what numbers they’re “supposed” to be lifting? Good idea OP, take a program that doesn’t let you get acclimated to your body’s strengths and weaknesses at all, see poor results, and then switch to another one. Let us know how that works out for you.

And for the record yes, I am 100% against 5/3/1… because it’s not a goddamn bodybuilding routine no matter how it’s broken down.[/quote]

Disagree with you buddy, not entirely but I think you can make it work fine.

A lot of people don’t like to think for themselves, I used to be one of those guys surfing the web for programs. I would generally try something and find myself back to where I was before hand. I train based on how my body responds to training and I know my body best. But I guess if I were a lazy individual I’d enjoy being spoon fed and we have plenty of those type of programs, not saying they don’t work but I don’t think anyone will achieve out of this world results, blindly following other peoples programs and not training based on their own needs.

But, 5/3/1 is a pretty basic strength progression program which is what getting bigger and stronger is all about. Keep shooting for PRs…it has you hitting failure in all different rep ranges changing weekly. Accessory lifts are picked based on lagging bodyparts and weaknesses. I think the 5/3/1 philosophy isn’t a bad one for getting bigger and stronger, it’s pretty much the basics for all bodybuilding and strength routines.[/quote]

Yeah I can dig it dude. I had actually edited my post a bit to make it seem less “black and white” but missed that part.

Regardless, I don’t think an arbitrary percentage through calculations should dictate how much weight you decide to lift on a particular day is all I’m saying.