First my apologies to TB23, I am not trying to hijack your thread, I will post a couple of things and get off.
Its hard to have a general rule about ammo amounts in the States. I always prepare for the worst situations (multiple active shooters, terrorists, etc) and carry at least 24 to 30 rounds. I am not carrying an M-6 in the States, so the handgun is my primary defense and accurate shooting in a combat situation with handgun regardless of skill level, is tricky at best. Plan on missing. According to statisticians, based on LEO shootings, you will only need abouit 2.5 rounds per gunfight, however, we all know that is based on quick, close range street shootings and not engaging in an urban survival scenario. I really cannot advise you on extended mags, because, I dont shoot well with them and they have never “felt right” to me. Probably based on my competition days in IPSC. I know you and Push carry them, which , I assume is very convenient. I am just not trained enough in their use.
Yes, the 9mm is universally used through out NATO and I am forced to carry the round in theater. The .45 is rarely seen outside some SF/Marine SOG units. Regular issue for the USG is the Beretta, while most of the NATO forces use Glocks, SIG and few Wathers scattered around. The reason I carry 6 magazines outside the wire, is not that I expect to use the pistol, but, I know there will no replacement magazines on any Forwarding Operating Base, so, resupply of out of the equation. Now, I do carry seven M-6/M-4 magazines for my primary defense and can always be resupplied with mags and ammo.
As silly as it sounds, I don’t know if the CIA/SAD operators favor that pistol or not, because, no one actually tells anybody who they work for. Example: Last week I was down in Kandahar for something and during the briefing,I knew one of the guys was OSI and one was DEA, but, the other six individuals didn’t say who they were with and they didn’t ask me who I was. I know, really stupid Shit when you think about it. I have seen anyone but the Danes carrying that pistol and , as a general rule, I have to be working with you to ask anything but operational questions. As far as the 5.7., I wrote a small review on the Combat Forum about my only encounter with one and will post here for you.
Since we were discussing magazine capacities, I though I would post another encounter for humor.
I know you and Push favor concealed carry and practical shooting. There is a lot of gun talk, tactics, gun reviews, and other stuff on the Combat Forum in the “Bad Ideas” thread. If either gets some free time, check out the thread.
5.7 X 28.
Robert,
Excellent analysis on the Oregon shooting and should be required reading for anyone faced with making the shoot/dont shoot equation. Your minute by minute breakdown was like reading a report by the investigative shooting team. Thank you.
Not to derail any discussion on the Oregon shooting or any other deadly force shootings,for, I would like to to read other responses, but, I was able to play with a FN Herstal yesterday and thought I would give a quick review for our continuning “Bad Ideas”.
A chance encounter with a couple of Danish security guys yesterday and they were kind enough to let me play with the FN Pistol, cal. 5.7 x 28mm. I have seen them before as, it seems, the Nordic’s like to carry them. I know the Norwegian Ambassador’s PSD team carries them ( well, last year).
My observations:
1.This is a BIG pistol and much too big for my medium to small hands. I had to shift the pistol about a quarter of an inch in my hand to change mags.
- The weight has to be experienced to be believed, extremely light, I am talking water pistol weight, in fact, without the ammo it would probably float like a balloon.
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- Accuracy is outstanding because recoil is non existent, but, what do you expect from a .22 Magnum/.17 Remington on steroids?
- Muzzle flash has to be experienced, even in daylight. I got used to it after the first mag, but, think about firing a .357 mag 2 inch revolver at
night for a visualization.
- The safety is ABOVE the trigger guard. I t would take me about 3 months of constant training before I would ever feel comfortable in carrying that in a serious situation. The Danes didnt seem to have a problem with it, I guess because they haven’t grew up with US handguns.
- The 5.7 is a joy to shoot and based on the 40 grain armor piercing ammo we were shooting, able to zip through some levels of old Kevlar.(according to google, around 1600 FPS) However, I have my doubts about the structural integrity of the hollow-point variety holding up under real conditions.
- Overall, from just a little over two hours, I won’t be carrying one on the job , without being ordered too.It is too big for my hands, the safety is certainly in the wrong place for me, night firing would leave you blind without some type of muzzle break, and I need to see some reports of the bullet actually stopping a predator.
- Would I buy one? no, its too expensive, but, I would like to have one to play with, provided someone else bought the ammo, which is around $30USD a box :))