T Nation

Right Amount of Calories?

Hi. Have gotten great advice some time ago and been working on changing things since then. Finally spending the right amount of time in the kitchen and am able to control my calories/food with ease

Because I haven’t had a solid diet for some time (calories varied day to day) I’m sort of un-sure what my maintenance calories are.

I’m 6’1, 205lb, probably 23%bf, 23 years old, eating 40p/30/30 (protein from eggs and meat)

I seemed to have sped up my metabolism and got back to the gym. I’m trying to eat about 2000 calories now (all clean food, no milk/protein shakes either) but I still seem a bit hungry about 20-30 minutes after I eat

Does that sound like I’m maybe somewhat below maintenance? Is maintenance when you basically don’t over-eat but also are full and don’t feel hungry?

From previous advice/searching, my goal isn’t to cut or bulk right now, but to stay for a couple months with a clean diet a bit below maint and do the newbie gains and then move onto bulking and gaining some muscle.

Off to the gym

Thanks!

Your eatting to little. You ratio of 40/30/30 is fin but your not eating enough.

The Forumla I use is 16xBody Mass (you can use Lean Body Mass if you are way overweight)

This is the forumla used by CT in the mutation seres, I also use it. Has allowed me to loose some fat and build muscle.

So using Body mass of 205 x 16 = 3280 kcal.

Depending on your training you might even want to go a bit higher.

Also read this

7 Habits of Highly Effective Nutritional Programs
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459493

Thank you! I don’t know why, but I thought its 100 per lb bodyweight, not x16

Going to upp some calories in each meal.

How hungry are you though if you’re 20% below your maint?

[quote]Spawn_X wrote:
Thank you! I don’t know why, but I thought its 100 per lb bodyweight, not x16

Going to upp some calories in each meal.

How hungry are you though if you’re 20% below your maint?[/quote]

You wrote:

Do “the newbie gains”? That sounds like a new dance move. How could you GAIN anything if you are eating LESS than your body needs to GAIN anything?

You are 6’1" and only just over 200lbs…and you want to make some kind of “gain” by not gaining anything? How does that work exactly?

I would like to gain some money…without earning anything. Sounds like a plan.

ProfessorX, thank you for your reply! Read a lot of your advice and respect it.

I’ve read all about the dilemma of “cutting vs. bulking” for newbies and how you don’t like to tell fat people to bulk but also don’t want to advise folks with little muscle to cut, which is basically where I am.

By the “dance” I’m referring to the gains that most new people get when they fix their diet and start training, I’ve seen it mentioned here many many times (but only for newbies, as you can’t lose fat and gain muscle at the same time after that)

My plan is to eat close to maint, maybe a bit below (since I’ve never ate this many calories before, so I’m sure body composition would still change), to bust my ass at the gym, and eat very clean with lots and lots of meat, and keep that up for a couple months to change the body composition some, then move onto a bulk. I thought that was the right thing to do for a person with my body composition? At least that’s what I’ve gotten from advice on here to those who just started.

Please do correct me if I’m wrong?

Appreciate your time on a newbie post! I thought I was going about it the right way

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Do “the newbie gains”? That sounds like a new dance move. [/quote]

That’s funny!!! and brings to mind all kinds of scary and amusing images, LOL!

@ Spawn_X:

Just eat a lot of good food spread over six meals a day and train hard. Lots and lots of meat is a good start. Nobody wants to be fat, but eating below maintainence for now is the exact wrong way to attack it unless you want to look like a stick person.

I’ll let ya in on a little recognized fact. A very large number of overweight Americans don’t actually eat that many more calories than they should. It’s what they eat, when and in what quantities at a time while sitting on their ass all day that’s killin em.

Train hard and eat a shitload of good food and you’ll be amazed what that will do for you.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Do “the newbie gains”? That sounds like a new dance move.

That’s funny!!! and brings to mind all kinds of scary and amusing images, LOL!

@ Spawn_X:

Just eat a lot of good food spread over six meals a day and train hard. Lots and lots of meat is a good start. Nobody wants to be fat, but eating below maintainence for now is the exact wrong way to attack it unless you want to look like a stick person.

I’ll let ya in on a little recognized fact. A very large number of overweight Americans don’t actually eat that many more calories than they should. It’s what they eat, when and in what quantities at a time while sitting on their ass all day that’s killin em.

Train hard and eat a shitload of good food and you’ll be amazed what that will do for you.[/quote]

Along with this, there seem to be a lot of sedentary people on this site unaware that they need to get in the gym and work hard on a regular basis with the goal of GAINING some strength and muscle before they start trying to look like cover models.

There was one poster this week writing that he needs to get his fat ass back in the gym after four months off. This was after writing a post 4 months ago about just starting to hit the gym.

Why would someone who clearly hasn’t been moving much or exercising at all try to not gain strength and muscle? All a body fat as high as the OP tells me (at that weight and height) is that he hasn’t been doing anything. He isn’t walking around like that after training hard. He is walking around like that because he barely moves. Trying to make some magical change in body comp without actually making any real changes makes no sense at all.

Gain some muscle, speed up your metabolism, make training a HABIT, and THEN revise your goals. This isn’t Slim Fast Nation.

Thank you for the replies. Thank you too professor.

I haven’t worked out for 4 months because I got tired of busting ass at the gym and not seeing results because of a poor diet. Isn’t it 80% diet 20% exercise (or close)? I was training hard, but probably overtraining, undersleeping, definitely undereating, and not recovering well (probably why all the hard work at the gym did not that much to body comp)

I moved out, worked overtime (IT guy, sitting job), took some cooking classes, and started changing my eating habits for the better.

Now that my eating habits are finally in place I happily started training again.

So no eating below maint then. Got it. Will up the calories and keep hitting the gym hard. Its going to be great to finally see results.

Thank you again. The advice will be used!

[quote]Spawn_X wrote:
Isn’t it 80% diet 20% exercise (or close)? [/quote]

It’s 100% Diet, 100% training, 100% motivation, and 100% common sense to know where your own limits are, to reach them again and again, and learn when to back down.

These numbers given don’t mean shit, especially if they made a newbie like you stop training so hard because you thought you should only give a “20%” effort in the gym. It is about consistency and motivation to reach a goal…a goal you don’t even have because your goal right now is to stay exactly the same and “do the newbie gains”.

If you ahve been training for four fucking months, when were you planning on “doing the newbie gains”? Any day now?

As if lifting heavy and eating to gain something was a bad idea?

I keep waiting for somebody, anybody, to get one of these lashings from Professor X (or a couple other guys, Sasquatch and Rockscar come to mind) and say “f**k him”. I’ll show that a$$hole who’s not motivated and willing to do what it takes" amd then actually go do it instead of pout about how somebody talked mean to me. This is just in general, not about this guy… yet.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I keep waiting for somebody, anybody, to get one of these lashings from Professor X (or a couple other guys, Sasquatch and Rockscar come to mind) and say “f**k him”. I’ll show that a$$hole who’s not motivated and willing to do what it takes" amd then actually go do it instead of pout about how somebody talked mean to me. This is just in general, not about this guy… yet.[/quote]

because it’s the day and age of blame someone else and take no responsibility. Instead of reading/learning or doing/learning, people want to be–no–expect to be hand walked through their entire program and diet. Now that we’ve said ‘hey, do it yourself’ they can bitch and moan about nobody helping the newbies.

I admit to being harsh a lot. But, I think I’m fair. Given a well though out question, or at least one that looks like the person made an attempt, but maybe isn’t grasping the concept, I’d like to think I give a good, reasoned response. Trouble is, there really haven’t been many of those in my opinion. To many, and I’m sorry for pickin’ but here we are, like this thread where the poster clearly doesn’t get what he is even saying. I mean–stay at or below maint. calories and wait for mewbie gains. Stay at or below maint. and expect to get stronger and lose bf. That is a recipe for disaster. Bye bye muscle–hello body fat.

Then you try to explain that to them, and you get the classis–'Not everyone has the same goals to just get as big as they can. We want to be a ripped 180 not some blown up 220. Come on. Grasp the concept.

[quote]sasquatch wrote:
…Come on. Grasp the concept.[/quote]

I’ll be honest with you. When I first showed up here not that long ago I had similar goals to a lot of these guys even though I should’ve known better from past experience. I thought the Professor and a couple of other of you vets were just egotistical and obnoxious, raining ridicule on guys who weren’t as big or experienced as you were.

Aside from a very minor run in with Professor X I didn’t say much because I didn’t feel I was around long enough. As I listened to you guys though the old dusty lightbulb that I already had in the back in the mind turned on and in the span of about 15 minutes of thought I changed the way I was doing things in favor of the way that had worked for me before which was essentially what you guys were saying.

In a nutshell, getting big requires eating big, training big and forgetting about bodyfat for a while. Not getting fat, but just don’t frickin worry about it unless I really started to pile it on.

Having been here a little while now it’s starting to weary ME hearing some of these kids and I understand more now how the patience of the some the longtime memebers has long since departed. I’m older than all you guys (42) and I eat a hell of a lot of food and a hell of a lot of fat and I am not getting fat. I’m not ripped either, but my progress is better than I ever wouild’ve thought possible at my age.

To hear a 19 year old kid who’s 6,2/185 talk like he’s going to be obese next week if he eats a steak or some scrambled eggs is like fingernails on a chalkboard. How can you claim to want to train with weights and not want to get big at the very time in your life when it’s easiest to do? I’d kill to be able to go back and have that opportunity again.

None of you guys have ever said anything that I’ve read that should stop a serious guy from using what you say for their own good. My God, you’ve got a whole world’s worth of training advice at your fingertips with the click of a mouse.

It used to be you had to hire a trainer and hope for the best or maybe get some tips on the very off chance that there was anybody in your gym who both knew what they were doing and were willing to help you. Now it’s all in the other room on the computer and all you could ever dream of and they’re gonna argue.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
These numbers given don’t mean shit, especially if they made a newbie like you stop training so hard because you thought you should only give a “20%” effort in the gym. It is about consistency and motivation to reach a goal…a goal you don’t even have because your goal right now is to stay exactly the same and “do the newbie gains”.

If you ahve been training for four fucking months, when were you planning on “doing the newbie gains”? Any day now?[/quote]

Sorry Professor - I was giving it 100% at the gym. By 80/20 I meant the whole “you grow outside the gym. you grow in your sleep. etc.” and that even the best program in the gym will mean shit if your diet isn’t up to par, and mine wasn’t

I do not think Professor is rude, mean, obnoxious, or any of the other pros on this site. I’ve done a lot of reading here, and post when I am truly lost

I will not say “fu** them, I’ll show them!” because I rather read what was posted and stand back quietly while working hard on the goals, and speak back up only when I have pictures to prove that my newbie ass learned something

So I thank you for the comments once again. They will not be going to waste. Building a good body has always been at the top of my list, but due to different crap going on in life I was never able to dedicate myself to it 110% until now. No troll here.

I’m going to quietly step back now and get to busting ass at the gym and in the kitchen.

Thank you and good day!

[quote]Spawn_X wrote:
I’m going to quietly step back now and get to busting ass at the gym and in the kitchen.
[/quote]

That’s the spirit.

I just wanted to quickly make clear that I wasn’t picking on you, nor was I speaking negatively about any of the vets I named. These are some of my favorite reads here. It was more of a commentary on the goofy, seemingly weakminded way things are approached by alleged grownups sometimes.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Spawn_X wrote:
Isn’t it 80% diet 20% exercise (or close)?

It’s 100% Diet, 100% training, 100% motivation, and 100% common sense to know where your own limits are, to reach them again and again, and learn when to back down.

These numbers given don’t mean shit, especially if they made a newbie like you stop training so hard because you thought you should only give a “20%” effort in the gym. It is about consistency and motivation to reach a goal…a goal you don’t even have because your goal right now is to stay exactly the same and “do the newbie gains”.

If you ahve been training for four fucking months, when were you planning on “doing the newbie gains”? Any day now?

As if lifting heavy and eating to gain something was a bad idea?[/quote]

I love you.

Good luck man! BTW the skillet looks yummy.

[quote]jbodzin wrote:
Good luck man! BTW the skillet looks yummy.[/quote]

It does doesn’t it. I gotta say, not only that, but the photo composition is good too not to mention I’m a big fan of cast iron.


haha, never thought I’d get complimented for photography. I just started taking pictures of different meals for no real reason

skillets are king. get one. 3 for 10 bucks at my local Macy’s. Cast iron = KING when it comes to taste, can be used as a plate too

since my photography isn’t so bad, here’s another one. ok, ok, sorry for off-topic. back to eating!

[quote]Spawn_X wrote:
haha, never thought I’d get complimented for photography. I just started taking pictures of different meals for no real reason

skillets are king. get one. 3 for 10 bucks at my local Macy’s. Cast iron = KING when it comes to taste, can be used as a plate too

since my photography isn’t so bad, here’s another one. ok, ok, sorry for off-topic. back to eating![/quote]

Good eye, but your exposure could use some tweaking. Check your PM’s