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Riddle Me This: Strange Estrogen Results

All right folks here’s the situation. I’m on Dr. prescribed TRT. My Dr. is incredibly easy to work with and open to just about anything I suggest. He currently has me on 300 mg/wk of Test Cyp which puts my TT at 1700, FT at 39 and E2 at 50 ( test results as of 2/9/19). We’ve switched from adex to nolva to handle E because I’ve had trouble in the past controlling E and I’m also trying to follow @physioLojik’s advice in favor of Nolva.
I started a 12 wk blast in Feb consisting of 600/600 mg/wk of Test/Eq along with 10mg of Nolva 3x/wk.
I just got my bloods back from labcorp and my E is 4.5?! WTH?

I don’t feel crashed…my joints are fine…I’m sleeping well…what’s going on?

It’s the eq. How and why it does it I have no idea iv never used it but several people report this. Makes me wonder if it’s a false reading kinda how tren shows crazy high E2 when really it’s not.

Yep, EQ has a metabolite that acts as an AI for a certain percentage of guys. There are tons and tons of blood tests showing the same kind of result you got.

So you think the EQ is masking my true E numbers and not acting as an AI right? I’ve seen my E numbers drop while running Mast in the past which was nice since it allowed me to drop my AI completely.

Would you recommend lowering the EQ dosage to let E rebound a bit higher or roll with it?

This is where I’m clueless.

Heres my thought process. How do people have E levels that low on EQ and not have major low E symptoms? At the same time as iron said it has a metabolite that acts as an AI but does this mean that those are your true E readings.

Idk this is where things go above my level of knowledge you’d have to ask one of the book guys like unreal and nowicare they might have a super long and detailed response that I won’t understand but maybe you will as to what’s exactly is going on.

As far as lowering the eq to try and get levels back up I don’t see why you would do that. Nothing is wrong symptoms wise. Don’t fix it if it isnt broken. that my bro science motto for the day.

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Well I appreciate the responses nonetheless cause I’m certainly baffled. I was fully expecting to see some higher than average #s and was questioning if my Nolva may have been Adex.
I’m gonna let it ride as you suggested until and unless I start to feel crashed. Your bro science motto has me sold today.
Thanks @zeek1414 @iron_yuppie

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Outside of the low e results how is the blast going? How does it compare to test only blast? Good gains? Vascularity? I ask because my next blast I want to do pretty much the same thing

So far so good. I’m just about halfway into it and I feel pretty good. I cant tell my BP might be a bit elevated although I haven’t checked it (lazy). My hemoglobin and hematocrit are a little elevated (19.5 and 54.8 respectively) but I attribute this more to possible dehydration than anything else. I do routine phlebotomy that should cover that issue along with elevated RBC.
Other than this weird E reading I’m vascular and hard (no homo) even with a less than enviable body fat (i’m somewhere around 15.314% I’d guess). Strength gains are not amazing (yet) but we’re not talking about Tren here are we?

It’s too early to call it a success but it’s not a failure by far.

@yubs not here to help, I’m newbie to all of this. Just wanted to ask you about Nolvadex use as replacement to AI, as I’ve read Physiolojik’s thread about it, but can’t fully understand. So you are using 10mg 3 times per week? So in total 30mg/week? If so, how do you feel? Any high E symptoms or something? As I’m battling high E with adex unsuccessfully right now and I’m afraid to crash… Thanks.

Your numbers are very interesting. Im currently on 200/600 Test/EQ and in the first week when I frontloaded my joints were extremely dry and achy, symptoms of low E2. Never heard of an EQ metabolite being an AI but it makes sense now.

SB

Yes, that’s it. I was taking 10mg 3x week (M-W-F) for a total of 30mg and never had any high E symptoms even while I was just on my TRT dose. There may have been a little water retention maybe…but nothing like the moon-face bloating or anything. It may have been unrelated to E and just diet related as well.
For someone having a hard time dialing in an AI Nolva should be a godsend.

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I’d never heard of that happening either…I always knew it wasn’t a heavy aromatizer so I was actually expecting to see higher E numbers, especially considering I was doubling my T dose and adding the Eq.I was scratching my head when I saw the labs to be honest, for a minute I thought my Nolva might really be Adex instead.

Thank you, your reply is very valuable to me. Sorry for interrupting your thread, I just really wanted to hear from someone using this method to control E.

No worries man. We’re all hear to learn from one another.

Not everyone experiences sides from high or low E2. I don’t. I’ve been as low as 8.1 and as high as 112.6, non-sensitive. Didn’t feel any different either way.

Interesting. I’ve crashed my E2 before while dialing in my arimidex dosage and don’t want to go back there again which is partially why I switched to Nolva.

Interesting some are saying eq lowers E. I’ve been running eq for years with test and mostly blasting at over 400 each and usually over 500 pw. I normally run aromasin as an ai because it won’t crash your E and doesn’t affect igf1 from what Ive read. I dropped aromasin for about a month and decided to start back up at 10mg a day. Within 24hrs of the first dose of aromasin I have dropped 3 solid pounds. I weigh in the morning on an empty stomach. I didn’t feel bloated before, and never actually do but I was noticeably holding less water around my abs and waist after only one dose and 24hrs later.

My point is if eq acts as an ai it wasn’t doing a good job. Not sure if my logic is correct. For what it’s worth I never get hormone panels because my dr is great in terms of him being a good dr but is judgemental and would freak if he saw my test was over 1000. One time he told me I didn’t even need test to live and forced me to get a brain mri to put me on test gel with levels under 200. Freaked when my levels got to 1200. Now I self medicate because I don’t need him up my rear over it and test is easy to get and cheap. Used to not be the case for me years ago.

Eq was first designed for human use but was soon made into a vet only drug back in the 60’s. If you could look at the original studies and what it’s human use was used for when it was made for humans that would give you more data as to if it actually reduces E or not. As to my anecdotal evidence and from what I’ve heard it aromatizes to E at less than half the rate of test and probably to something less potent than test would aromatize to. If it did act as an ai that would be news to me. Masteron for example was designed to reduce estrogen in breast cancer patients.

Hey bud. A couple of things come to mind. One - lab error. These actually happen more than a little :slight_smile:

Second - there were other factors affecting your test that day - as I’ve said a lot of times - hormone blood tests are like flashlights in a cave - you get a snapshot of only that very moment in time. How do you feel now?

Thanks for weighing in Doc your insight is much appreciated.
The thought of lab error did also cross my mind more than once.

In all honesty I feel good…my libido is fine, not out of control like it was when I ran a cycle that included Tren but fine. I don’t think I truly recovered neurologically from the Tren cycle so I’m avoiding adding it back in and just waiting it out. So other than the lack of a raging libido from 300mg or 600mg /wk of Test I feel good.

Thoughts?