T Nation

Review my Progression


#1

Ive just started this progression for the main BB lifts. Can you take a look and tell me what you think?

3 weeks of each phase:

5x5 @ 60-70%
4x4 @ 70-80%
5x3 @ 80-90%
2x2 @ 90-95%
3x1 @ 95+%


#2

What are your current maxes and how long have you been lifting? Once a week split? Why follow the same progression for all lifts?

Initial thoughts are that is far too easy and not enough volume. 5 Reps at 60% is something I would do when I took/need to take some time off and just gotta get my groove back on day one.

If this is the kind of style you wanna do and you just want to keep it simple, just do 5/3/1.


#3

[quote]Sutebun wrote:
What are your current maxes and how long have you been lifting? Once a week split? Why follow the same progression for all lifts?

Initial thoughts are that is far too easy and not enough volume. 5 Reps at 60% is something I would do when I took/need to take some time off and just gotta get my groove back on day one.

If this is the kind of style you wanna do and you just want to keep it simple, just do 5/3/1.[/quote]

I just made a quick change to the percentages.

Ive done 5/3/1 in the past before and did well with it. I’m trying this because I wanted to design my own program and progression.

i do 4 day upper/lower.

So the first set would be at the given percentage, and then increase the weights. Example:

5x5@ 60-70% with 1RM of 300lbs:

180x5, 185x5, 190x5, 195x5, 200x5

The next week i would try to increase those weights but staying within 60-70% 1RM. Do that for 3 weeks

so the next 2 weeks progression would look like:
185x5, 190x5, 195x5, 200x5, 205x5

then

190x5, 195x5, 200x5, 205x5, 210x5

i got stronger each week and stayed within the percentages.

This is all based off Prilepins table.


#4

[quote]ANIMAL M0THER wrote:
This is all based off Prilepins table.[/quote]

Keep in mind that Prilepin’s table is a guideline for one training day. It doesn’t specify how many training days you need each week because that’s based on how much volume you can handle. It’s okay to stick to the table as a rough start so you can get a feel for it. Once you go through at least one training cycle you’ll understand how your body responds.


#5

[quote]Sutebun wrote:
What are your current maxes and how long have you been lifting? Once a week split? Why follow the same progression for all lifts?

Initial thoughts are that is far too easy and not enough volume. 5 Reps at 60% is something I would do when I took/need to take some time off and just gotta get my groove back on day one.

If this is the kind of style you wanna do and you just want to keep it simple, just do 5/3/1.[/quote]

I agree that 5x5 in the 60-70% range seems very little, unless the OP has used less volume in the past. Adding in another day or two would make it very similar to standard 5x5 programs.


#6

I personally think the volume and/or intensity is too low. Also, people seem to forget that Prilepins chart is based on the olympic lifts, which are a totally different animal than the powerlifts. Olympic lifting requires more explosive power, not strength.

Also, I prefer straight weight for sets, rather than that 5 lb increase for each set through your 5 sets. But once again, on your example of a 300 lb max and doing 200 x 5 on your last set, that is still only 67%. I have done cycles where I was doing 5 x 8 at 75%. Granted that is tough, and not recommended, my current cycle has me doing 4 x 8 at 70%, 5 x 6 at 75% and 6 x 4+ (AMRAP last set) at 80%, And I go up in weight each time I restart the cycle.


#7

I personally think the volume and/or intensity is too low. Also, people seem to forget that Prilepins chart is based on the olympic lifts, which are a totally different animal than the powerlifts. Olympic lifting requires more explosive power, not strength.

Also, I prefer straight weight for sets, rather than that 5 lb increase for each set through your 5 sets. But once again, on your example of a 300 lb max and doing 200 x 5 on your last set, that is still only 67%. I have done cycles where I was doing 5 x 8 at 75%. Granted that is tough, and not recommended, my current cycle has me doing 4 x 8 at 70%, 5 x 6 at 75% and 6 x 4+ (AMRAP last set) at 80%, And I go up in weight each time I restart the cycle.


#8

So how would you recommend that I tweak this to make it better?

Im not looking to compete but just want to be overall strong in the big BB lifts.

Is it worth pursuing this and going through the trouble of making this work or would I be better off doing a 5/3/1, Cube Method etc?

My whole idea going into this was to try to keep it as simple as possible but the started to realize that using percentages can be very helpful. I also realize that many people out there have gotten very strong without knowledge of percentages, Prilepins, Westside, Russian Manuals etc. People of lesser means and education and prisoners get very strong without the benefit of these resources.

Do you guys usually design your own stuff or not?

Thanks


#9

and regarding Westside Max effort, i feel that working up to a 1-3RM only tests strength and doesn’t build it so it has never worked for me. I prefer more volume at a lower %.


#10

how about changing to

5x5 @ 75-80%
4x4 @ 80-85%
5x3 @ 85-90%
2x2 @ 90-95%

run each phase for 3 weeks


#11

[quote]ANIMAL M0THER wrote:
So how would you recommend that I tweak this to make it better?

Im not looking to compete but just want to be overall strong in the big BB lifts.

Is it worth pursuing this and going through the trouble of making this work or would I be better off doing a 5/3/1, Cube Method etc?

My whole idea going into this was to try to keep it as simple as possible but the started to realize that using percentages can be very helpful. I also realize that many people out there have gotten very strong without knowledge of percentages, Prilepins, Westside, Russian Manuals etc. People of lesser means and education and prisoners get very strong without the benefit of these resources.

Do you guys usually design your own stuff or not?

Thanks[/quote]

It depends on how much volume you can do over an entire training cycle (not just a single day or week), which should be a slight increase from what you have done in the past. People can get strong without Prilepin’s chart, percentages, etc. through experience by knowing how much volume and intensity is necessary throughout a training cycle, knowing how to make adjustments and having good technique. Having knowledge doesn’t necessarily mean a person knows how to apply it correctly.

I normally run an existing template to learn how I respond before making adjustments. I have never created an entire program from scratch. Even if I attempted to, it would look similar to a program that exists because there are so many out there within the spectrum of high/low frequency, high/low volume and/or high/low intensity.


#12

[quote]ANIMAL M0THER wrote:
how about changing to

5x5 @ 75-80%
4x4 @ 80-85%
5x3 @ 85-90%
2x2 @ 90-95%

run each phase for 3 weeks[/quote]

That could work but how well depends on what you have done in the past. If you’re set on experimenting, remember that you’ll have to adjust based on how you respond. Don’t push beyond failure and do a bunch of reps with poor technique just to hit your set/rep scheme. If it came down to that then it probably means the program wasn’t right for you at this point in training.


#13

[quote]lift206 wrote:

[quote]ANIMAL M0THER wrote:
So how would you recommend that I tweak this to make it better?

Im not looking to compete but just want to be overall strong in the big BB lifts.

Is it worth pursuing this and going through the trouble of making this work or would I be better off doing a 5/3/1, Cube Method etc?

My whole idea going into this was to try to keep it as simple as possible but the started to realize that using percentages can be very helpful. I also realize that many people out there have gotten very strong without knowledge of percentages, Prilepins, Westside, Russian Manuals etc. People of lesser means and education and prisoners get very strong without the benefit of these resources.

Do you guys usually design your own stuff or not?

Thanks[/quote]

It depends on how much volume you can do over an entire training cycle (not just a single day or week), which should be a slight increase from what you have done in the past. People can get strong without Prilepin’s chart, percentages, etc. through experience by knowing how much volume and intensity is necessary throughout a training cycle, knowing how to make adjustments and having good technique. Having knowledge doesn’t necessarily mean a person knows how to apply it correctly.

I normally run an existing template to learn how I respond before making adjustments. I have never created an entire program from scratch. Even if I attempted to, it would look similar to a program that exists because there are so many out there within the spectrum of high/low frequency, high/low volume and/or high/low intensity.[/quote]

Thats true.

When I originally started developing this progression I noticed it looked a lot like 5/3/1.


#14

[quote]lift206 wrote:

[quote]ANIMAL M0THER wrote:
how about changing to

5x5 @ 75-80%
4x4 @ 80-85%
5x3 @ 85-90%
2x2 @ 90-95%

run each phase for 3 weeks[/quote]

That could work but how well depends on what you have done in the past. If you’re set on experimenting, remember that you’ll have to adjust based on how you respond. Don’t push beyond failure and do a bunch of reps with poor technique just to hit your set/rep scheme. If it came down to that then it probably means the program wasn’t right for you at this point in training.[/quote]

In the past Ive done low volume. If I was going to do this I would auto regulate my sets based on how i felt that day, staying in the percentage range.


#15

[quote]ANIMAL M0THER wrote:
In the past Ive done low volume. If I was going to do this I would auto regulate my sets based on how i felt that day, staying in the percentage range.[/quote]

During the beginning it would probably be best to stick to the set/rep scheme since your main focus is volume. Intensity should increase week-to-week but making slight adjustments shouldn’t have that big of an impact on volume if you’re only adjusting the intensity (removing sets/reps would have a bigger impact). Towards the end your goal is to peak so your main focus is intensity. In that case it would probably be best to adjust, if necessary, sets/reps depending on how you feel and your recovery. The middle is kind of hazy. I tend to err on the side of volume until hitting the 90% intensity mark. It’ll be a good learning experience. Best of luck and let us know how it turns out.


#16

Mother! What about working all rep ranges every week? What happened to developing all strength qualities at once!

You’ve just kind of “re-designed” progressive linear periodization. Here’s a similar set up, from Matt Kroc for comparison.

16 Week Weekly Weight Progression

Week 1:  5 x 10 x 60% (5 sets of 10 reps @ 60%)
Week 2:  5 x 8 x 65%
Week 3:  5 x 5 x 70%
Week 4:  5 x 3 x 75%
Week 5:  5 x 10 x 60%
Week 6:  5 x 8 x 70%
Week 7:  5 x 5 x 75%
Week 8:  5 x 3 x 80%
Week 9:  5 x 10 x 60%
Week 10:  4 x 8 x 75%
Week 11:  4 x 5 x 80%
Week 12:  4 x 3 x 85%
Week 13:  5 x 10 x 60%
Week 14:  3 x 8 x 80%
Week 15:  3 x 5 x 85%
Week 16:  3 x 3 x 90%

The major critique of this sort of program is that you don’t lift heavy weights for 12-15 weeks. The technique you develop doing the light weights is different than the technique you use lifting heavy weights. The size you develop doing the high reps in the beginning is disappears at the end when you just lift heavy weights, etc. Louie Simmons and Dave Tate have a lot to say against this type of training, if you’re interested.

Check out this cool set up I’ve been using the last few weeks. Its from Anthony Ditillo, circa 1968.

warm ups
90%x2, 3 sets
80%x3, 3 sets
75%x3, 3 sets

Week to week, you keep the weights the same, but increase the sets and reps, trying to get up to
warm ups
90%x3, 5 sets
80%x5, 5 sets
75%x7, 5 sets

So it’s double progression, building volume (sets and reps) at the same percentages instead of just bumping the weights all the time. It’s auto regulated, you just kinda add what you can add to what you can already do. Also, you lift different weights every session. The doubles at 90 are kinda heavy, without killing you. The triples with 80% are almost like speed or CAT work. Your body just automatically moves the lighter weight faster. Then for the lightest sets, your body just naturally does the reps “dynamic correspondence” style. I feel like I’m getting “better” at the lifts every workout from the different bar speeds.


#17

Oh! That 16 week progression looks terrible, sorry.


#18

thats the progression for my big lifts. assistance stuff is done for 8 reps.