Assuming you are asking these questions because you are actually curious and not instead employing this as some sort of Socratic approach to an argument, I believe the primary difference you would have noticed is that you may have been able to hit these lifts at a sub 300lb bodyweight/without putting more weight on. It was one of the primary differences I noticed when I switched from linear progression abbreviated training to something with some sort of autoregulation and assistance work: calories and weight gain were less crucial toward success.
All of those lifts were hit at a sub-300 bodyweight, which is quite a bit lower than my starting bodyweight when I began this process. Its a long road and I’m still on it.
I don’t really think running Greyskull LP would have dramatically changed my lifting trajectory vs the linear scheme I ran for quite some time. 5/3/1 might have, but I had this idea in my head that it was an advanced program that was unfit for me. It wasn’t even on my radar as a beginner.
My apologies, I was recalling your weigh ins at 297-298 in your most recent blog entries when I was estimating your weight for your last week’s training and rounding up, but you are correct in it’s sub 300lb status. I think that paired with our prior conversations regarding the need/benefit of weight gain as a beginner may have swayed my memory on the matter.
I am inclined to agree with you regarding no significant difference in terms of results between Greyskull and another 5x5 employing the same approach t recovery/bodyweight manipulation. However, I do agree with the observations of Furius as well regarding the limitations of a the currently en vogue straight set 5x5s versus a program that decides to employ auto-regulation and assistance work like Grekskull (or 5/3/1, or the Cube method, or a variety of others). Rather than peak strength and then start building it, I’d have a beginner start building from the start.
All that said, your sentiment is also correct that a trainee who only shows up and goes through the motions with a great program isn’t going to match the results of someone who comes to kill it with a bad program. Intensity of effort and consistency tends to trump programming in most cases. It was just that you had asked the question, and I thought you’d be interested in the answer.
Congrats on the continued weight loss. I hope it continues to go well.
There was a time where what would be classed as crash diets were used as a valid introduction to an eating plan - before you settled into something more sensible. 1-3 months of hard dieting (or stuffing thy self)
The idea being the motivation at the beginning of the diet would carry you over the period where cravings are worst, you could then ease restrictions as cravings became less intense.
There are parallels here with this approach and beginner programs. For some proportion of the population this will work and it is an extremely tempting proposition for everybody but I believe as with diet and most things in life, the sustainable route (from the beginning ) to strength is best suited to most people.
Why be such a dick though. The guy is speaking sensibly, even complimenting you, and you talk like you’ve got a shaft in your ass.
Lighten up. We all know you used to be overly obese and finally did something for yourself. Doesn’t mean that what you did is the end all be all factor in this game.
And honest question, did you run every single 5 rep beginner program out there? Were you somehow able to manage restarting as a beginner each time you applied the program?
Chill out homie.
Yeah, you’re right. I was fired up for no good reason yesterday.
@Furius Sorry for being a dick, I largely agree with what you wrote, except the part where you called a program that works just fine a poor choice for someone when you didn’t know anything about said trainee.
And no, I didn’t run every beginner program. I ran a beginner 3x5 program for 9 months I pulled off of a muscle and fitness website, which is an even worse sin than running the similar programs of Starting Strength or Stronglifts. And I made the awful blunder of winging it on my own for a few more months, which leads to the only point I’ve been trying to make this whole time.
Any sensible program will probably do just fine for a determined beginner. I simply don’t believe that a trainees’ outcome will hinge on a decision to run Greyskull vs. Starting Strength or Stronglifts, and calling any sensible program “a poor choice” is myopic and unhelpful to a beginner. It gives fuel to the notion that programs are some secret sauce when they are not.
Again, sorry to all for the tone yesterday.
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@twojarslave No worries man, we’re good. I agree that “poor choice” was an exaggeration. I was talking on a general level and aimed to recommend a program to fit well for majority of trainees. Now let’s focus on the matter at hand.
Edit: Sweet chocolaty Jesus these emoji’s look horrible.
Thanks, but continued weight loss is not something I’ve experienced with barbell lifting. After everything nets out, I’ve actually gained about 5 pounds from the day I had my first deadlift workout (shortly after being inspired by fellow toe shoe wearer Hugh Jackman’s widely circulated internet picture).