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Reverse FSL?


#1

Hello!

I really like the idea of the reverse bbb to get more frequency of the main lifts.
For example 531 bench press and then bbb overhead press.

I am thinking about giving First Set Last (multiple sets) a try for my next couple of cycles.

Can i reverse them as well?, i didn't find any information about this in the book.

So bench press 531 and then fsl overhead press.

Thanks! :slightly_smiling:


#2

yes you could do that


#3

Jim has used reverse FSL in many templates, check out the beyond challenge for ex.

I personally used 6 weeks of reverse BBB (rule of 50) and 9 weeks of reverse FSL (5X5-8 to 5x3) last winter and liked the results. I got more mass and can handle more volume, these things have helped me a lot now when I’m doing 4 month program with quite high volume and frequency.


#4

Is that true, that Jim has used reverse FSL in many templates?

I ask because I’ve never seen it. Actually he responded to my thread the other day about it and unless I misunderstood, recommended that to do those templates that you should stick to the same lift. In the beyond book, when he mentions a version of BBB using FSL, he specifically calls out do use the same lift and not the reverse.

I think the reason is warmup. Once you get to the FSL %, you shouldn’t just switch to another lift without warming up.


#5

Then warm up?

How could you do some other template with 2-3 heavy movements per session without preparing for each lift properly.

One example of using opposite FSL is the Strength challenge.


#6

I basically asked the same question recently, check it out.


#7

I don’t know if this has anything to do with it, but maybe it was because you were going to run it 5x10?
The FSL i was thinking about from the book was 3-5 sets and 8-10 reps, but then again if i do 5x8 it’s almost the same… hmmmm

Now i am confused, it seems like a really fun idea though.

Personally i think that only doing each main lift once per week is far to little (getting some technique and stuff in), this would be a fun way to resolve that :slight_smile:


#8

I just checked the beyond book again and you are right, the strength challenge does have the alternative excercise at the FSL %. That’a the first time I’ve seen that. Maybe it was because of the 5x10 instead of the 5x5.

I kinda like the idea of hitting the movements twice a week as well.

Guess we’ll have to experiment and see what works.

Good luck guys!


#9

Nothing wrong with reversing. Many people do this to increase frequency.


#10

I’m not a huge fan of this “more frequency” because I believe in quality over quantity. In the long run, it won’t matter one bit. Especially if you strive to do things right. It’s like people who “cut” - only people who “cut” are those that aren’t disciplined to do things right all the time.

You do whatever you think is best for your current situation. I have used reverse FSL for several templates, check them out.


#11

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
I’m not a huge fan of this “more frequency” because I believe in quality over quantity. In the long run, it won’t matter one bit. Especially if you strive to do things right. It’s like people who “cut” - only people who “cut” are those that aren’t disciplined to do things right all the time.

You do whatever you think is best for your current situation. I have used reverse FSL for several templates, check them out.

[/quote]

How is that you are a former powerlifter and you don’t understand at all how frequency works?


#12

Frequency works for me at least. Also many people recommend it for various reasons (faster neural adaptations, possibly to do more volume/week without fatigue etc.), but I understood that Wendler meant, that frequency is not necessity - squat 1, or 2 or 3 times a week you’ll get stronger anyway.


#13

[quote]DanProsser wrote:

How is that you are a former powerlifter and you don’t understand at all how frequency works?
[/quote]

It’s funny, you never see lifters of any accomplishment talking in absolutes, but the internet is full of mediocrities struggling to squat 405 who sound like they are willing to fight and die for their training-related philosophical convictions.

A broad range of frequencies has been shown to work for different lifters and different lifts. If higher frequencies work for you, great, but too many all-time great lifters have hit the lifts once per week to discount that approach.


#14

Aight thanks all!
I finally found the version i am going to use my next couple of cycles! :slight_smile:

531 with reverse FSL for multiple sets, sounds awesome!
Regarding the frequency of the main lifts, for my case it’s mostly because i need to improve my form and will benefit from doing the lift at least twice/week (also because it’s fun haha).

One final question unrelated to the topic :slight_smile:

I read that doing sets of chin-ups/pull-ups between each set of pressing is recommended by Jim and others.
So far i have only been doing a couple of sets at the end of each bench and press session, but could it work for me to do sets in between pressing?

On my upperbody days it would then mean about 7-10 sets of chins if doing in between each pressing set… to much?


#15

Jim personally recommends it in his books.

It does not have so big difference. Many people like to do some pulling/shoulder exercises between pressing sets to keep their shoulders alive. It also saves time.

I have done both ways, and really don’t see any difference about anything. You don’t need to program this. If feeling strong or in rush, do it. But if you don’t have the best day focus on pressing first and do some chins later.


#16

[quote]Msve87 wrote:

I read that doing sets of chin-ups/pull-ups between each set of pressing is recommended by Jim and others.
So far i have only been doing a couple of sets at the end of each bench and press session, but could it work for me to do sets in between pressing?

On my upperbody days it would then mean about 7-10 sets of chins if doing in between each pressing set… to much?[/quote]

I’ve been doing pull-ups/chins between pressing sets for a few years now and it’s great.

I like to do pull aparts between my pressing warmup sets then chins between all work sets - changing the grip daily/weekly. It may be tough at first but you’ll adapt to the work.

As you get stronger add a rep to each set every couple weeks or so.