Results From First Bulk at 43?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
21

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Jaybee wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
15 years to gain 100lbs of muscle and you’re one of the most muscular guys on this site… That’s an average gain of 6.6 pounds of muscle a year (obviously gains aren’t linear like that but still)

I graduated highschool at 5’11 and 162lbs (although I ha been lifting for football during that time) and now I’m 5’11" and 214 (yeterday at the gym) while being leaner than I was at 162. That’s 52lb increase while losing BF in the 10 years since I graduated (wow 10 years? I feel old lol) what I’m trying to say is shit takes time (especially if your natural)

6 pounds of muscle gain a year is great IMO. If I was the OP I would be estatic at gaining that much muscle.

How does the old saying go: “Rome wasn’t built in a day”???[/quote]

I get what you’re saying mate but I’ll say it again, I did the 80% of the work but only 20% of the eating. I could well have been up another 40Ibs LMT in all that time with a correct diet, but I chose a career first, and I’d choose the same way again. Now, I’m not expecting to recoup that lost opportunity in one year flat, but you have to realise that I’m only just now feeding my body more than 100gms of protein daily!! That is a revolutionary increase for my body, and between the two, I’m sure my LMT gains for 2012 will be a LOT greater than the few Ibs I’d be ekeing out had I kept a solid diet.

That, plus like I said in my very first line, guys like me are rare; how many BB’ers do you know who lifted heavy, 2-3 times a week, for 20 years and only just recently kicked their protein into 3 digits? Like Prof X said, you don’t know.

But yeah, thanks, I’ll continue to shoot high.

[/quote]

well good luck then. I hope you get where you want to go.
[/quote]

Thank you. Watch this space!! :slight_smile:

22

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]hanban wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
It’s taken me about 15 years actively (I was a 95lbs freshman in high school)…and I rarely see anyone making that much and more progress at all.

That took all out focus on getting bigger for a number of years. There is no way in hell my body would be that “elastic” over the age of 35. It has already found its set point and it will be way harder to change at that age.

That is pretty much why I keep repeating myself on here.[/quote]

I doubt there is much difference in one’s body ability to grow muscle in his 30’s compared to his 20’s. what i mean is you could very well get huge when you start lifting at 30 by the time you get close to 40. show me a 30 year old average male who cant add 5lbs with good diet and training a year (LBM). In your case you have made most of your natural gains in your 20’s so naturally your gains are alot slower in your 30’s[/quote]

You seem to be missing the glaring point here. No one is saying gains can not be made over 40…but if you think gains to the tune of 100lbs will be gained you are being ridiculous. For one, your metabolism will only slow the older you get, so the chances of someone starting at even 30 and hitting 45 years of age with a 100lbs gain in lean body mass is so fucking rare I have NEVER seen it happen to someone.

Why argue this?

Your body adapts…and if you hold the same damn body weight for 3 or 4 decades, don’t expect it to jump to attention when you suddenly ask it to gain muscle like crazy.

Why?

Because you spent your whole life teaching it NOT to do that.[/quote]

I’m pretty sure we all agree on your first point, things slow down as we get older and for the OP to expect 20lbs a muscle a year, well…

For myself, it’s your last sentence I don’t agree with. Can I put 100 lbs of muscle on my body starting at the ripe old age of 45? Probably, but I need to be dedicated, bang on diet, great supps and a healthy body. I haven’t been teaching my body my whole life NOT to do that, as I am not dead yet. Will it take longer? Heck yes. But at 5 lbs a year (not unrealistic, IMO), the next 20 years working out, I have reached my goal. The body WILL adapt, albeit slower.

And please realize that this is under OPTIMAL condition and for 20 years to boot. Hard, but not impossible.

And yes, I know, it would have been a whole lot easier at 20.

Ahhh, to be young again.

23

^^a normal person WILL NOT be able to put on 100lbs of muscle (drug free) while starting at the age of 45 on. No way no how.

How many people in the entire world have put on 100lbs of muscle in their entire life while starting from the age 18 on??? Not A Lot… No way you’re doing that from the age 45-65.

24

Still doesn’t make the last statement incorrect. Your body’s ability to recuperate and even to adapt to increased stress is not a static entity. The body I had at 95lbs would have DIED under the stress that I normally train with daily now.

That is because over time, I taught myself to deal with more and more stress…which is the only way you can go from really skinny to looking like you’ve been big all your life…by teaching the body to slowly adapt to more and more. This takes years and involves tendon strength as well (which as everyone should know is WAY slower than muscle strength gains and will only increase in recovery time the older you get)

This ability will be limited if you spent 4 decades NOT teaching it to adapt to more stress…and there is no way in hell a 40 year old body will adapt the same as someone who is in their 20’s.

That means that while you can gain more muscle at that age, it is very doubtful you can create the full body change of someone who is literally still growing if for no other reason than you don’t have the elastic tendons to allow rapid transformation.

That means, yes, you spent 4 decades teaching your body NOT to adapt to increased stimuli because you weren’t feeding it enough.

It will NOT respond the same as someone who has not allowed that much adaptation to a static body weight and is still setting the patterns that will lead to weight set points and adaptation.

25

[quote]gregron wrote:
^^a normal person WILL NOT be able to put on 100lbs of muscle (drug free) while starting at the age of 45 on. No way no how.

How many people in the entire world have put on 100lbs of muscle in their entire life while starting from the age 18 on??? Not A Lot… No way you’re doing that from the age 45-65.[/quote]

Hell, how many on this site have done this and have the pictures to prove it?

26

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
OP… During you’re 20 year training career you went from 148lbs of LBM to 182lbs of lean body mass. That is a gain of 1.7lbs of LBM a year.

At your age (over 40) and as a natural, it is NOT going to be easy for you to gain muscle. If you were genetically predisposed to gaining lots of LBM it would have happened by now IMO.

Not that you shouldnt aim high (because you most certainly should) but I think gaining “a couple of kilos of LBM” in a year is REALLY REALLY GOOD. Definitely not something to scoff at.

you put on 3-4 kilos (6-9lbs of muscle) in a year of solid good weight that would be awesome IMO. Of course your overall weight gain is going to be higher than that but that amount of true muscle gain in a year for someone over 40 would be pretty incredible.[/quote]

I agree with this.

People with the genes to become really big don’t wait 20 years to make it happen.

I am very confident in saying I doubt we will ever see many people who can gain anywhere near the weight over 40 that they could at 25.

If your goal is to be huge, you had better be really fucking big by 25 and already huge by 30.

Otherwise, expect SLOW progress.

That’s the main reason we keep telling newbs to quit wasting time. They won’t get it back years later.[/quote]
Agree, I’m 45 and certainly don’t have the genetics to be “big”, and I sure wish I lifted more/tried to bulk in my 20’s. But i don’t think this would have lead me down that road, because genetically it is not there for me. I did gain 50 ibs over all, but largely in spurts. To the Op: I have gained nearly 20 ibs in about 3 months but in my case I had lost a lot of LBM over a year and a half, and a lot of it was muscle memory. Obviously this will slow down, as will the strength gains. In your case I agree with Gregron and X that an all out bulk is a poor idea, and that 2kg of muscle a year (lbm only) is excellent and can be maintained and built on

27

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
^^a normal person WILL NOT be able to put on 100lbs of muscle (drug free) while starting at the age of 45 on. No way no how.

How many people in the entire world have put on 100lbs of muscle in their entire life while starting from the age 18 on??? Not A Lot… No way you’re doing that from the age 45-65.[/quote]

Hell, how many on this site have done this and have the pictures to prove it?[/quote]

Seriously.

Gaining 100lbs of LBM, once your body stops growing in height, is ridiculous. Doing that between the ages 45 & 65 is as close to impossible as it comes IMO.

I mean look at Jay Cutler… His competition weight us around 260? If his LBM upon highschool graduation was 160 that would be a 100lb muscle increase and he’s the reigning Mr O

28

[quote]gregron wrote:
^^a normal person WILL NOT be able to put on 100lbs of muscle (drug free) while starting at the age of 45 on. No way no how.

How many people in the entire world have put on 100lbs of muscle in their entire life while starting from the age 18 on??? Not A Lot… No way you’re doing that from the age 45-65.[/quote]

Agreed on that one. I just used 100 lbs, as it was mentioned. I think I over reached there and used a wrong example.

Hey, first to admit when I’m wrong.

But we can still agree that we can make progress (not as fast as a 20 year old) or are we disagreeing on that also? Note that I am not putting a number on the growth. I am just talking steady progress. Be it 1 lb or 5 lbs or whatever.

29

This thread has kinda taken on a new topic (of sorts) but this is an interesting topic/discussion if you ask me.

30

[quote]JFG wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
^^a normal person WILL NOT be able to put on 100lbs of muscle (drug free) while starting at the age of 45 on. No way no how.

How many people in the entire world have put on 100lbs of muscle in their entire life while starting from the age 18 on??? Not A Lot… No way you’re doing that from the age 45-65.[/quote]

Agreed on that one. I just used 100 lbs, as it was mentioned. I think I over reached there and used a wrong example.

Hey, first to admit when I’m wrong.

But we can still agree that we can make progress (not as fast as a 20 year old) or are we disagreeing on that also? Note that I am not putting a number on the growth. I am just talking steady progress. Be it 1 lb or 5 lbs or whatever.
[/quote]

Hahaha no we agree on that. Someone can most certainly make progress (and good progress at that) after the age of 40… I just dont quite agree with the OP as far as what can be expected at that age.

I think 5lbs of pure muscle (think BB stage weight) in a year is really good for someone who isnt untrained… And is especially good for someone who is over 40 :slight_smile:

31

[quote]gregron wrote:
This thread has kinda taken on a new topic (of sorts) but this is an interesting topic/discussion if you ask me.[/quote]

Yes, it has.

I still dont agree 100% with ProX though.

Maybe I’m just old and pig headed, but to put limitation like that…

And for the record, I played a LOT of sport in the first 30 years, some at Junior National level. Maybe that is why I am disagreeing with you? Pride??

Realize Prof, that I am not completly disagreeing with you, I am just not 100% on board with what you are saying. As English is my second language, I sometimes have trouble expressing EXACTLY what I want to say.

Having dinner with my son, let my mind work on it and will get back to you with a coherent answer.

32

[quote]gregron wrote:
^^a normal person WILL NOT be able to put on 100lbs of muscle (drug free) while starting at the age of 45 on. No way no how.

How many people in the entire world have put on 100lbs of muscle in their entire life while starting from the age 18 on??? Not A Lot… No way you’re doing that from the age 45-65.[/quote]

naturally speaking every person who is big or “HUGE” spent years in a bulked up state, with no abs (15+% bf) without asking himself every morning if he should bulk or cut, just go lift heavy ass weights and eat to get big. PX did it and he would probably be half his size if he got “toned for summer” every time.
thats how you get big in your 20’s and 30’s, you cant eat as much when you are 40 yo, thats the main reasons why you cant add alot of muscle.
its all about food anyway.

33

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
^^a normal person WILL NOT be able to put on 100lbs of muscle (drug free) while starting at the age of 45 on. No way no how.

How many people in the entire world have put on 100lbs of muscle in their entire life while starting from the age 18 on??? Not A Lot… No way you’re doing that from the age 45-65.[/quote]

Hell, how many on this site have done this and have the pictures to prove it?[/quote]

X, you said it yourself earlier; if someone wants to be 300Lbs of pure steel THAT badly, he’ll probably start at 18 and dedicate his life to it, and keep everything else out of his life. And if he’s lucky to remain uninjured, he’ll get it.

What is the answer to your question? How many people on this site are over 45 at all? How many guys started lifting 45+ ? Like all other BB sites the vast majority of fellas here are young guys wanted (rightly) to get huge. The nearest thing T-Nation has is a 35+ section that is being used about as much as Amy Winehouse’s pipe right now. You have no numbers so you don’t know how few guys, picking up a dumbell for the first time aged 45, could slam on 100Lbs lean over 20 years.

Damn few, I’ll wager - out of 1000, maybe a few genetic freaks - but ZERO? No.

34

No, I was referring to doing it at all…in any way, shape or form. Even for most serious lifters, for someone to gain that type of size after they stop growing is rarely seen. It takes several years of full commitment…and you will find few people who can do that as well as take care of school, jobs, and family.

I did it because that is how badly I wanted to get big. Hell, the sheer amount of food consumed in the past for me would be impossible for the average 45 year old to digest.

This is a sport where if you want to be extreme, you had better get in and get the job done with at least a solid foundation before the age of 25…as in, already big.

35

[quote]gregron wrote:

Hahaha no we agree on that. Someone can most certainly make progress (and good progress at that) after the age of 40… I just dont quite agree with the OP as far as what can be expected at that age.

I think 5lbs of pure muscle (think BB stage weight) in a year is really good for someone who isnt untrained… And is especially good for someone who is over 40 :slight_smile:
[/quote]

As I told you before, not if that 40+ fella started eating correctly only that year. You don’t have any precedents for me;, I’m the only bugger I’ve seen anywhere on the web that did that much training BEFORE cleaning his diet. There lies the difference.

But anyway, I will show you. I should be finished with my cut Oct/November (just wanna see some abs), and then I’ll put up measurements/photos here. Christmas 2012, Vs Christmas 2011.

36

The amount of time you spend bulking whether it be clean or dirty will determine how many calories over matinence you should eat. if you were trying to gain 10lbs over a 5 month period ct’s formulas on muscle composition says to ingest 1400 cals over matinence. bulking for a 10 month period 700 cals over matinence.

37

I think his entire point is that there are TONS of people who have made shitty progress over 20 years and that it is too late for you to clean up your act… I don’t know why you think shitting away 20 years of growth makes you special and, for some strange reason, primed to put slabs of lean mass…

Edit: Not that you can’t make spectacular progress… there is always time to grow and fix things… but your expectations are quite unrealistic considering your past history of absolutely zero dedication…

[quote]Jaybee wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

Hahaha no we agree on that. Someone can most certainly make progress (and good progress at that) after the age of 40… I just dont quite agree with the OP as far as what can be expected at that age.

I think 5lbs of pure muscle (think BB stage weight) in a year is really good for someone who isnt untrained… And is especially good for someone who is over 40 :slight_smile:
[/quote]

As I told you before, not if that 40+ fella started eating correctly only that year. You don’t have any precedents for me;, I’m the only bugger I’ve seen anywhere on the web that did that much training BEFORE cleaning his diet. There lies the difference.

But anyway, I will show you. I should be finished with my cut Oct/November (just wanna see some abs), and then I’ll put up measurements/photos here. Christmas 2012, Vs Christmas 2011.[/quote]

38

Bring it, Jaybee. It’s only too late when you’re dead.

You face a mountain, and it has called you a bitch. What say ye?

39

[quote]Jaybee wrote:
As I told you before, not if that 40+ fella started eating correctly only that year. You don’t have any precedents for me;, I’m the only bugger I’ve seen anywhere on the web that did that much training BEFORE cleaning his diet. There lies the difference.

But anyway, I will show you. I should be finished with my cut Oct/November (just wanna see some abs), and then I’ll put up measurements/photos here. Christmas 2012, Vs Christmas 2011.[/quote]

I turned 48 this summer. I didn’t spend the last twenty-five years screwing around. I have ‘rung every drop from the sponge’. There is body-comp video in my profile…I’ve squatted 3xBW in three different weight classes and deadlifted 3x in two. I am 5’10" and have weighed as much as 245-lifetime natural. My diet is always ‘bang-on’ bulk or cut.
O.P. you seem to think that eating 300 grams of protein a day and ‘squaring away’ your diet will somehow lead to great gains. While diet is certainly high priority, and ‘squaring away’ your program will help, at your(my) age you simply can no longer process the volume of food required to make the kind of progress you suggest. You may be able to make it a week, maybe a month…but month after month, year after year, no way. The same is true for your training. Example: I still lift heavy, I squat up to 500 at full depth for reps on a good day. In my late twenties and through my thirties I could do this every week, week after week, year after year. In my mid-forties I had to start an every other week approach, lately maybe every third. My ability to recover is unable to keep up with my desire to train. Your body can’t absorb the level of abuse at 45 like it can at 25 or 35(leg day for sure), declining biology has to be considered if you remain natural. If you do incurr an injury(and anyone training at the level required to progress is going to), it doesn’t cost a week or even a month in your mid to late forties, it hangs around and gets in the way of shit for three, four, up to six months(a half a year wasted on rehab over a shoulder strain). Five pounds of ‘new’ LBM on a lifter 40+ in a year is a rare thing. Serious weight training in your forties is not your friend!
I’m not pissing on your parade! You may have ‘top shelf’ genetics and be an exception. I’m all for a senior guy working hard and having goals. Perhaps you will uncover something the rest of us have missed. I look forward to following your progress.

40

[quote]tmaximus wrote:
Bring it, Jaybee. It’s only too late when you’re dead.

You face a mountain, and it has called you a bitch. What say ye?[/quote]

Oh, I was going to just climb it before it called me a bitch. But now, I’m going to let my piss form it’s highest icicles.