T Nation

Results After 4 Weeks Nolvadex (HPTA Restart)- Failed

I had to create a new account, but my old post is here:

I will summarize my journey below.

September 08 2016: was experiencing these symptoms slowly increasing the past year: Lack of energy (fatigue), mood changes, brain fog, decreased sex drive, low motivation, sore longer after workouts + decrease strength, some depression.

Ordered my own simple bloodwork: http://imgur.com/a/yd1an

September 19 2016: Went to doc and told him my symptoms and ordered more bloodwork: http://imgur.com/eJ9mwMd http://imgur.com/KtkFbPx (CBC+CMP)
Doctor said that I am “normal” and no reason to worry despite terrible numbers all around. Fuck that.

October 2016: Went to see a urologist that had some knowledge with TRT and hormones. Doc checked my previous results and I recommended to restart my HPTA, to which he agreed. 4 weeks of HCG and then 4 Weeks of Nolvdex, protocol described below.

November 1 2016:
Start HCG dosage 270IU EOD, Arimidex .25mg 2x week
This protocol will be used for 4 weeks before moving on to Nolvadex.
November 28 2016 blood work(only HCG + Arimidex fro 4 weeks): http://imgur.com/lLwWQqk
I felt absolutely better throughout these 4 weeks. Symptoms were melting away and meaningless. Every aspect of my life I felt improvement in and I told myself that I could never go back to the quality of life I’ve been feeling the past year. Everything was just easy for me now, and I didn’t realize how hard everything was prior. I crashed my E2 in the beginning of the protocol and backed off the arimidex which is why my E2 is a little high (although this is not a sensitive E2 test).

December 1st 2016:
Start Nolvdex 20mg EOD + .25mg Arimidex 2x week
By december 12th I was starting to feel worse off, and some of my symptoms were starting to appear again. I definitely did not feel as good as I did on HCG, but I trucked through the roller coaster. I thought my testosterone tanked, but I was wrong:

December 28 2016 blood work (just nolvadex and arimidex for 4 weeks): http://imgur.com/0i1sjff

I feel like absolute garbage despite pretty ok results after the Nolvadex protocol. At the moment of this post my symptoms are coming back and I feel even more depressive at this stage than before. Could this be from Nolvadex side effects?

Overall I am pretty happy with the results as I know that my testicles are fine from the HCG protocol and my body responded pretty well to Nolvadex. My SHBG is still very high and my free test did not respond well to the Nolvadex. It just sucks that I feel like shit right now. Next post will be in 4-6 weeks when I get more bloodwork to see if my HPTA could stand up on its own.

I do have to discuss the most recent results with my doc, does anything stand out?

Wow - your free T went from 32.4 to 1.3! No wonder you feel like garbage.

I don’t have any advice for you as I’m just learning, but hopefully someone will chime in soon with some knowledge.

Good luck!

Those two free t tests had very different ranges. Though it’s still true that FT was high in one and FT was low in the next.

Your SHBG is very high. That’s causing your FT to be so low.

I don’t know if that can be fixed.

My free T levels are as follows:

before anything: 4.671 ng/dl

hcg: 32.4 ng/dl

nolva: 11.4 ng/dl

Its been 2 weeks since those nolva results and I feel like trash. I have an endo appointment end of month to make sure nothing else is wrong and to get new bloodwork. Also to try and see why SHBG is this high which is casuing FT to go so low.

Results are in after dropping Nolvadex for 4 weeks. HPTA restart failed.

During these 4 weeks I felt like absolute shit. I literally feel 80 yrs old now. My joints are dry and creaky as fuck. Feels like i have arthritis all over, cant really do anything because my joints are just fucked. Wrists hurt typing this. Low Estrogen i know.

Anyways, what do you think about these results? I am going to see my doctor this week for a follow up and would like some talking points. It seems like my SHBG dropped from 60s to 40 in 4 weeks? Overall, my symptoms are worse than ever.
Bloodwork: http://imgur.com/a/0eQNE
Symptoms: http://imgur.com/a/MdPdA

@KSman I know i need sensitive estrodial assay’s and bio available T stuff. But i went to a new doctor and had to take what I can get. Any talking points for my follow up?

Looks like the restart failed. Before you throw in the towel - I would highly recommend that you try Clomid as opposed to Nolvadex. Clomid is a much better LH agonist and can stimulate the pituitary far better than Nolvadex. You don’t have to go crazy with either – just try 25 mg per day or 12.5 every day. Also – your liver enzymes are on the high side. I would highly recommend you try the supplement Liv52. I used it myself to bring down Ast/Alt.

Your FT, TT, E2 and SHBG do not make any sense.

Your low E2 is a problem, you need more FT–>E2
FT seems adequate for that, but it not happening.
TRT would fix.

Your complaints seem larger than what the labs imply.

Total cholesterol <160 is not good.
Are you using a statin drug? [type, dose and how long]

What is going on with thyroid, iodine and body temps?
You have not tested fT3 which is the active hormone.