T Nation

Restarted HPTA, Low FSH/LH


I did a heavy cycle of Test, EQ, Winstrol, Tren and Deca for 16 weeks last year and my last injection was on May 2017.
After one or two bad pct attempts (i wasn’t doing pct properly), my fTest, tTest, LH and FSH were very low.
Here are my values with dates:

I did some reading, went to alot of doctors and they weren’t really useful and i just wasn’t improving.
After a couple of months i found @KSman ‘s post about HPTA restart and i gave it a go.
I did:

HCG 250 EOD 14 Feb to 21 March- 5 weeks.
Nolvadex 20mg EOD 22 March to 26 April - 5 Weeks

Then i did some bloodwork on May 15

As you can see FSH/LH are low and my test levels seem okay.
I thought id get off any meds and leave my fsh/lh to naturally get back to normal values and somehow it still didnt.
Heres todays bloodwork 30/5/2018

What can i do now to get my numbers back up?
I read that diet is also a big part of it returning to normal, i usually eat clean but i dont eat much greens/and properly nutritious meals. Just mainly clean carbs and protein…
My sex drive was awful when my test levels were down, and even Viagra didnt really get me a proper erection. But since they went up and stayed high, Viagra works for me but my sex drive is barely at 60-70% of what i was used to before.

Should i take more meds? serms? hcg?
Please help out.

Did you not run an AI like letrozole or anastrazole?

I would wonder if ur estradiol levels skyrocketed after the restart and pushed your other levels down.

Nope i didnt… i just tapered off the Nolva then stopped.

I would highly recommend 1mg/week of arimidex(anastrazole) to keep that estradiol down. Anytime your T goes up, there will be an increase in the amount of T that gets converted (aromatase) into estrogens. The aromatase inhibitors (AIs) allow your T to go up, but your E to remain low.

I’m taking the arimidex (I had to get this on my own, since my doc didn’t understand the aromatase process) at 1mg a week and I feel great.

Ksman’s post recommends staying on an AI during, and even after, the restart. For a few weeks after, while tapering it.

Yeah i forgot about that. So ill start off now by doing another E2 bloodwork.
And what should i do now? do another run on Nolva and watch my E2 while doing it?

I would wait until you get an AI in your system before starting up the nolva again. Otherwise your E levels are just gonna jump up again.

Ok man i appreciate the help!
I dont wanna crash my e2 though… Ill get my e2 done, then what? a small dose of aramidex and what maybe in 2 weeks i start my aramidex?
Kinda confused on what to do haha

No good. Take labs first. You have a good chance of crashing e2. Many many guys crash their e2 on trt testosterone doses with just .25 a week. Do not push for ai.

Wait, do you think Ksman’s restart protocol is wrong? I’ve been following it exactly. Is there a more current method that is being suggested?

Im sure it has worked for alot of people. And it worked for me by getting my T levels up now i have to find a way to get my FSH/LH up though.

Novaldex or clomid should be able to. They block the pituitary from seeing estrogen and signal to push out more LH that tells testes to produce more t.
If your hpta axis does not restart , then you may need trt. You should also get an MRI of your brain/pituitary.

An AI should not help increase LH/FSH. The novaldex should have done that. You could have created permanent damage from the steriod cycle you did

I just read your want to try novaldex again. That’s good. You dont need an AI to restart. Even if e2 high the novaldex blocks the pituitary from seeing it. Takes labs in the middle of your novaldex cycle. Then again after a few weeks of stopping.
Total t
Free t
You ever take prolactin lab if not do

Btw if you can’t maintain t levels after you try novaldex, you are secondary hypogonadism and need trt. If so, I would then do more complete labs to check thyroid and adrenal hormones too B4 trt.

How old r u?

Thanks for your reply, well honestly i dont want to go to the trt path, im more focused on fertility thats why ive been pushing to get my Fsh/lh back to normal.
i just turned 27. so you suggest i should run another 5 weeks of Nolva again?
And regarding maintaining my T levels, im happy of where theyre at now at mid-high range, i was suffering from low T, but when i ran the hcg then the nolva cycle it went up and stayed up. I did t3/t4 labs a few months ago and they were fine and in range aswell.

Please tell me you used HCG through out the cycle. At any rate it seems the estradiol is the culprit here, how’s your SHBG?

Sorry forgot to add this. Please describe your initial PCTs. I’d stay away from HCG and focus more on clomid, I think your leydig cells are desensitized. Do not panic, you may yet recover.

Unfortunately… i didnt use HCG throughout my cycle, and surely that was a big mistake. I did a SHBB test mid feb this year:

My initial PCTs were something like HCG 2500 E3D for 2 weeks, then Nolva 20mg EOD for 4 weeks, and this didnt really work for me.

Well i really do hope i recover, ill do a rT3, rT4 and E2 test tomorrow so i could complete the missing bloodwork.

What do you think i should do? im being optimistic here and hopefully i find a solution. @test_is_king

There’s your problem right there. HCG is such high doses in PCT is very very detrimental which is something you can never emphasize enough. Such a long cycle with Nor 19’s and it’s technically 21 weeks without supply of LH to testicles and then hammering the leydig cells with bursts of HCG, they got bigger sure and LH got up but they’re desensitized to your own LH. I am sure you will recover but it will take time and patience. You’re far from TRT, having that range of testosterone without meds means your leydig cells are getting back into work. Please don’t ever use HCG unless deemed necessary because you’ll only be taking 10 steps back. For now I suggest clomid only, ditch the Nolva. Start with 50mg Ed then work your way to 25mg EOD, this’ll take about 3 months. I’d do 50mg for a months, 50mg EOD for the second month and then 25mg EOD for the 3rd. Clean diet is a must, try getting Zinc, Magnisium and some Vitamin D daily (30mg, 400mg, 10iu). If erections are still a problem, I suggest checking your blood pressure as high BP will make it all the harder to get it up.The clomid might give you some mood swings or estro related problems but you’ll have to endure. Good luck Mark, I truly believe you’ll get back to normal levels given time.

Thank you for taking your time to type all that!
Yeah i know the protocal i followed was wrong… and i learned the hard way.
I’ll give your suggestion a go and hopefully that works for me. Wont clomid affect my libido though? Ive been reading alot of mixed reviews regarding this case.
What about bloodwork? ill do one after 6 weeks, and one right after and one 2 weeks later. What numbers should i be looking for? FSH/LH recovering and an increase in tTestosterone?
One last thing, do i have to worry about estrogen rebound after i taper off the clomid?

Thank you once again for your time bro:)

Always happy to help.
The clomid will give estro related sides yeah but it definitely works different for everyone. Some people report loss of libido, for me and several others it’s pretty much an aphrodisiac. It’s seriously like a mating season pill to me, it gets very hard to control (pun unintended). No bloat, nothing. The only sides I got from Clomid are the mood swings and irritability (which I think everyone gets). Again estro rebound is totally individual dependent but it can be controlled with an AI or even diet if you’re not feeling like taking meds. White button mushroom work wonders for estrogen control.
Bottom line, clomid is best thing you can do for your LH and Leydig cells thereof. You can take the tests every 6 weeks yes, but please don’t do any less than 3 months. Continue the 25mg EOD treatment after 3 months if you’re still not in optimal levels. Restarting leydig cells can take long especially after such a cycle and very poor PCTs.

Wish you a fast recovery.

Thanks man! sorry took me a while to reply.
Ill give your suggestions and protocal a try and hopefully it works out!

thanks again. :slight_smile:

Hey man i just did a semen analysis, and my sperm count, motility and all seem fine, actually theyre on the high-end range. How is it possible that my FSH/LH are on the down low and my semen analysis is perfectly fine? :grinning: