POST EDITED FOR LENGTH**PLEASE ALSO SEE POST #2
27, suffering from low T condition. Still researching hours out of every day but it’s a work in progress. Sorry if I am posting prematurely, becoming desperate - GF becoming impatient w/ my behavior and lack of sex interest - relationship in trouble; first year of law school almost a total wash.
Have used AAS, only real shutdown problems ever followed my last cycle, which was meant to be my last ever:
Anavar @ 80mg ED + Dbol @ 50mg ED for 4 wks then just Anavar for additional 3 wks
About 5 weeks through cycle, remaining gear + PCT stolen.
1st wk off - could feel mild symptoms of shutdown. Symptoms were not too bad and didn’t affect me that much.
3 months off - Moved to new city, still only mild symptoms
5 months off - 2 months after move started feeling worsened symptoms of shutdown / low T
7-10 months off - Symptoms got worse until I was feeling downright depressed, no sex drive, had a couple full out ED embarrassments, constant brain fog, nuts feeling and looking small - scrotum usually sucked right up close to the body, socially withdrawn big time. These problems may have been exacerbated by increased stress, decrease in training, poor sleep, and shit diet (not enough intake).
15 months off - Things improved slightly but then no more. However, over past 8 months I’ve had transient improvements in symptoms for periods lasting between 1-4 days. These periods are generally accompanied by a more relaxed hanging of the testes, what seems like a very slight increase in testicular size, increased sex drive, slightly greater motivation for life and to hit the gym, some improvement concentrating.
Sleep Element? ** Sometimes, not always, these periods quite clearly seem to follow a night or two of significant sleep deprivation or physical exhaustion.
Sushi ** After eating a small roll of salmon maki for lunch I experienced a powerful spike in sex drive w/ spontaneous erection like in 7th grade. This got me thinking about iodine and was the reason I first tried an iodine supplement. No further sushi or iodine supplementation has replicated this experience.
^^ These brief periods suggest to me that although my body is producing sub optimal LH, maybe when a decent pulse IS released, the testes are somewhat successfully responding to it - this gives me hope of a restart maybe being effective. I recently had bloods done the morning after one of these pulses seemed to peak - should have results soon, interested to see if levels are elevated.
My seemingly low LH and FSH with what appears to me a proportionate production of T suggests SECONDARY hypogonadism. I think it’s likely that what may be a high TSH is prob due to the HPTA being affected from AAS. The unhealthy cholesterol values you will see below are almost certainly from AAS.
-age > 27
-height > 5’10
-waist > 30"
-weight > 188 lbs
-describe body and facial hair
had full beard at 14, always pretty heavy but not as thick on the sides (cheeks) as some guys, heavy body hair pretty much all over - lighter on the lower back but still there
-describe where you carry fat and how changed
on lower abdomen and around sides, not a lot but a significant bit - only real change is that it’s there now and wasn’t 5 yrs ago
-health conditions, symptoms [history]
nothing serious, definitely have a bit of anxiety which has gotten worse in what I assume to be the period I’ve had lowered T levels. Use of Accutane as teenager caused severe depression while on drug
-Rx and OTC drugs, any hair loss drugs or prostate drugs ever
*Accutane 2 or 3 times between age 12 - 15 - don’t remember for how long,
*Celexa for very short period of a few weeks around 17,
*Wellbutrin XL 150 mg ED, took for 4 wks, decided to come off a few days ago until I get my system sorted out ** after 3 days of being off I had another experience of elevated sex drive accompanied by more normal hanging of testes and marginally increased size (at least improved shape and hardness)
*Cialis occasionally, between 5-10 mg, also have shitty UGL capsules that I occasionally use instead
> AAS (age 19 - 24 v.stupid I know): Have done separate cycles of Test Enanthate, Winstrol orals, Deca, Anavar + DBol. Longest cycle was 10 weeks, average cycle 6 wks. Can provide a rough outline of each if necessary > OTC:
Currently taking ED:
*high DHA squid oil complex containing 1300 mg omega 3,
*15ml greens extract complex,
*12000 iUs vitamin D3
*1000 iUs vit C
*Saw Palmetto (just started) approx. 320 mg
*LAB RESULTS WITH RANGES
(please note any conversions to ng/dL are approximate and not perfectly to the decimal pt)
LH= 3.8 U/L (range given: < 12.0)
FSH = 2.2 U/L (range given: < 7.0)
TT (this lab doesn’t seem to indicate FT or bio-T on their template so I think they only test TT)
= AM 11.1 nmol/L (range given: 10.3 - 29.5) [these are Canadian units of measure]
equivalent to 320.15 ng/dL (range given: 297.08 - 850.86) [what you’re likely used to seeing]
FT or bio-T - they don’t seem to even offer this test at the diagnostic lab chain most Dr’s use in my area, I may need to find a different lab
E2 - Dr of course didn’t seem to think this was worth testing, will get done on next panel very soon
Prolactin - will test next
DHT - also doesn’t seem to be tested @ this lab
PSA - also not @ lab
TSH - 2.82 mU/L (range: 0.20 - 4.00)
fasting serum glucose results - 5.1 nmol/L (3.3 - 6.0)
approx. same as - 147.08 ng/dL (95.17 - 173.03)
high blood pressure - need recent test, will do at drugstore
bone density tests results - don’t have
cholesterol - 5.68 nmol/L (<6.20) = [163.8 ng/dL (<178.8)]
Triglyceride, 2.06 nmol/L (<1.70) = [59.40 ng/dL (<49.02)]
HDL, 1.25 nmol/L (>0.90) = [36.04 ng/dL (>23.25)]
LDL, 3.49 nmol/L no range given = [100.65 ng/dL]
Total cholesterol / HDL ratio, 4.5
^^ I need to learn more about these numbers but they look like shit, even the Doc said they were high
Although my knowledge is admittedly lacking in regard to the meanings of the lab values and ranges, it appears to me that my LH and T levels are proportionate: LH is approx 1/3 (3.9:12.0) of the top of the range given, as is TT (11.1:29.5). Perhaps this is indicative that if a restart could effectively increase my natural LH production, then the testes would still be capable of subsequently increasing their T production
*THE WAY FORWARD / RESTART ATTEMPT PROPOSAL
Think I should try restart before HRT. Still young and body has seemed to be acting somewhat differently than expected from an average shutdown - timeline is strange, feels like pituitary still sending out pulses of LH that are somewhat effective on testes. It seems my problem is secondary, rather than primary hypogonadal.
Triptorelin - I am trying to learn more about this stuff but it’s obviously only been used for these purposes more recently, and there isn’t a lot of info out there. The study often seen only covers one subject and doesn’t seem to provide any long term results - just that there was return to normal levels 1 month after treatment. If anyone knows of more info out there on this stuff to treat shutdown please let me know.
Begin w/ low dose HCG to resensitize the testes to higher levels of LH that are still w/in the physiological range. Follow up w/ SERM for LH & FSH release stimulating effects, preferably Tamoxifen along w/ an appropriate AI to inhibit any additional receptor down-regulation from increased E levels. Taper slowly off SERM and adjust AI accordingly. Continue AI for 4 additional weeks after SERM ends.
This would entail:
WK 1-3(?)*HCG @ 250iu EOD (frontload?), run 3 weeks or until testes have recovered size and firmness
*Anastrozole @ .25mg EOD
WK 4-8(?)*Nolvadex @ 10mg ED or 20 mg EOD (FL?)
*Anastrozole @ .25mg EOD
WK 9 *Nolvadex @ 10mg EOD
*Anastrozole @ .125mg EOD
WK 10-14 *Anastrozole @ .125mg EOD
^^ ?'s regarding the above -
Should I expect to run the HCG for a longer period since I’ve been at low production for awhile, and it may take longer to resensitize the testes to LH? Would it serve my recovery better to do this for a minimum period of time or should I switch to SERM as soon as the testes have responded significantly?
Should I frontload the HCG or the Nolva? I’ve read hardasnails saying that sometimes with restarts less is more, I’m not sure how this translates to frontloading.
Likewise, should I begin at a higher dose w/ the nolva and then taper more slowly over longer period? And how long should the Nolva be run? I think KSman suggests 2 weeks can even be long enough in some cases
I think the doses and timelines here stick to pretty modest doses that should avoid any extra suppression as much as possible, but please let me know if I’m under or overdosing something or running anything too long (maybe too much time on SERM, or more should be on HCG)
Thought I read somewhere that Nolvadex and Anastrozole interact w/ each other, reducing levels of both drugs in the blood. Is this accurate? And if so, should I substitute one of these drugs for something else?
Thank you to anyone who can offer assistance w/ my attempt at recovery. I am researching my ass off and still have lots of learning to do, but I am very dedicated. Unfortunately I am also a full time law student in my first year, might not make it through now. More concerned about fixing my system and getting life back on track, rest will fall into place when I’m in good form.
Thanks again for any help guys, I have incredible respect for the knowledge around here and the time so many of you put into helping guys get back on track. Hope I can offer more to others in the future.