T Nation

Response to France bashing

I don’t usually say anything, but that stuff about France sucking is too funny to not respond to. ALL of the USAs concepts of freedoms, liberties, rights & all that sort of stuff are products of the French revolution ~200 years ago. Just read the stuff by Rousseau & you’ll see. He said the government should be the agent of the people & the only role of the state should be to keep the people from harming each other, otherwise they should be free to do anything. The USAs most famous landmark, the Statue of liberty, was a gift from France, so don’t tell France about fighting for peace & freedom ok?


The french revolution was in 1789!!! Ours started in 1775. Check out how many french patriots fought for America, were inspired, went home and started their own revolution. As a matter of freakin’ fact, we inspired the french revolution.

Second, if you read anything about the Founding Fathers, their MAIN influences were Rome and ancient Greece. Madison (who essentially wrote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights) kept referring to the ancient philosophers who championed Greek democracy.

Check out when the Statue of Liberty arrived on our shores, round about 1885!!! It was more of a, “thanks guys for the inspiration.”

By the way, in the recent crisis we never asked france to fight, we asked them to at least abstain from doing the right thing. They couldn’t even bring themselves to do that. Pathetic.

Woo baby, someone fetch a fire extingisher…and quick! Watch out dude.

I’m not touching this one. :slight_smile:

so they influenced us & we influenced them and so on & and on and on… never stops.
Your right US=GG, France ripped everything off from the US because we are a far older & wiser culture, and dammit, we’re just better.

France bashing is the tired cause of the myopic. Reminds me of the ridiculous Japan bashing in the 80’s because their business protocol was kicking ass (of course not so anymore, so now their our buddies).

so if/when France supports whatever US cause next time we’ll be all warm and fuzzy from handshakes and backslapping again.

 US=GG, I bow to you. You obviously know your history and are a precious asset to the arguing of our stance when we agree (which has been very often)

 Kuri, thank you once again for the insight. We'd be lost if you weren't here to tell us what's gonna hapen in the future.

Some of the “French-bashing” is just plain stupid. For example, people are actually boycotting eating in French restaurants.

Hello! These are businesses owned by Americans that serve French food. You are just driving American restaurant owners out of business. It’s like boycotting french fries at McDonalds.

Anyway we should be trying to salvage our relationship with France, not burn our bridges.

I actually find it fairly alarming that just because france didn’t support the US they’re bieng held up for continual ridicule, not only as a military force, but as a country in general.

To do so ignores: Voltaire, Descarte, Satre, Victor Hugo, Alexandre Dumas pere, Louis Pasteur, Marie Curie, Chopin, Bizet, DeBussey, Rousseau, Simone de Beauvoir, Cousteau, Larousse, Dom Perignon…to name but a very very few

NO country gets it right all the time.

This isn’t really germane to the discussion, but, let me tell you something about the French:

I unfortunately took Air-France to Italy a couple of days ago. First of all, when we called and asked about overweight baggage, they said they preferred that everything be kept in one bag (and hence be overweight) and therefore in one place. They said there would be a small, nominal charge.

When we got there, they told us that it would cost extra, because one of our bags was overweight. “How much?” we asked. “A lot.” It turned out that it was $660 for 20 lbs. So after arguing with the supervisor, we pulled a bag out of the suitcase, put 20lbs of stuff in it, and they dropped the charge. Then they told us that there was still a $330 charge because one of the other bags was over-weight. They never mentioned that before.

Anyway, we get to the airport for the connecting flight, and it takes a half hour to get through their slow-assed customs. We’re running late, so we run to our gate, and ask the women working there where we should go. I hand my boarding pass to one of the women, who looks at it, grunts, and hands it back to me. Neither of them even look up at us. Finally, one of them gestures into the air and says “there!” We look around, come back, and I say “I know you’re busy, but we need help.” The woman still doesn’t look up, and says “read the signs!” Finally, we found another woman that gave us directions, in French, to get to the desk that would give us tickets for a later connection.

And people wonder why the French are despised?

FYI - Chopin was Polish, NOT French.

BTW – Thomas Jefferson and the gang were influenced by Locke as evidenced by the Declaration of Independence.

I wish people would stop bashing France. They did what they thought was the right thing to do, and we did what we thought was the right thing to do. That’s all.

Nephorm, you had a bad experience, but it is just B/S to say the French are despised becasue of this experience.

I lived in New York for two months several years back and they were possibly the rudest, nastiest, most arrogant group of people I ever met - does that mean I write off all Americans on that basis? Or even all New Yorkers? - of course not.

Every national grouping has its faults.
Get over it and go bash specifics - like the rude bitches from Air France who were on duty that day.


To add: Rodin, Monet, Manet, Degas, Cheret, Renoir, Toulouse-Lautrec, Gauguin, Erte…I could go on, but these were the immediate names that came to mind.

France has produced alot of great artists. And the world of art is all the better because of that.


It’s unfortunate that you had such a crummy experience. Unfortunately they couldn’t care less about travelers with coach seats and extra baggage. But still $330 is very steep since it’s typically about $100 or less in America. (Different airlines have different rules, but it’s typically about $100)

And don’t hate the French cuz of the airline. If we were to hate the entire nation based on the airline services, you can’t ignore USA! We have some of the crappiest airline services in the world, same goes for the hospitality (hotel, etc).

If you want to have a fab travel experience, fly Singapore Air, Asiana, NAL, Japan Air, Korean Air…basically all the airlines based in Asia. You get the most amazing service. (I rank Singapore Air’s coach service above Delta’s Busines class service)

We have given tons of freedom to many countries…art from France cannot make that claim.
Art is great…but it isn’t better than FREEDOM!!!

Stella, ack, mea culpa, you’re quite right, Chopin was indeed Polish.

iirc he didn’t hang around Poland due to a failed uprising against the Russians and the resultant oppression that followed. SO he hit france round about when he was 20.

Hey, 20 years in Poland 20 years [almost] in France …he did the majority of his composition work in France…sounds French to me grin

Patricia. I stopped where I did otherwise I would have run out of meta-ink. We could add Poussain, Watteau, etc Baudelaire…heh…noticing a distinct artistic bias there…

Ptr - Art is the expression of the mass and its time. Dictators often kill art first – censorship, etc. If you look at art (music, paintings, sculptures, literature, etc), it really reflects what was going on at that time. Most people don’t seem to realize it and always say that art isn’t important, but without soul what’s the point of freedom? I’m not debating that the military might isn’t important since it is necessary in order to protect the freedom, but discount art altogether?

iscar - Chopin was more Polish than French IMHO. He went to France because of his French root (I think he was French Polish). You can never discount his Polish childhood, and you know how much childhood can influence a person. :slight_smile: And I do love Chopin although he’s very difficult to play beautifully.

And Bizet! Is there a question in anyone’s mind that he wrote some of the greatest pieces? I know Carmen’s overplayed, but who cares? It’s classic! :slight_smile: