Responding to BLM/Antifa Harassment and Threats

[mnben87]

@squating_bear

Evidence is always correlation - you can never prove causation - you can get close enough so that many won’t notice the difference

In Economics, one of the things that is very important is proving causation. Now I agree with you, that nothing can be proven to even exist, and that complete certainty is not something that we can ever achieve.

I was more saying that saying that the assertion that Democrats are the cause for the violence is basically nothing more than correlation for now. Saying it is just silly as it is unfounded.

@squating_bear

there are human elements to this and those things you listed don’t account for that

Population density does not have a human element to it?

Population density and population demographics have larger correlation to violence than Democrat rule.

[squating_bear]

@mnben87

Population density does not have a human element to it?

Population density and population demographics have larger correlation to violence than Democrat rule.

Changes in population density might account for changes in rioting levels or rates

Changes in rhetoric, political affiliations might do a better job of accounting for those changes

[Mufasa]

@mnben87

Population density and population demographics have larger correlation to violence than Democrat rule.

THANK YOU!

AND the form, amount and mix of employment, i.e. available employment and what those jobs pay.

[squating_bear]

Covid shutdowns might be a big driver as well

[mnben87]

Yep. I think many people are frustrated with how things have been going. Many are out of work. Many who would be working are now free to protest if they please.

[chris_ottawa]

@squating_bear

Covid shutdowns might be a big driver as well

It’s much easier to riot all night if you don’t have to go to work in the morning

@mnben87

I was more saying that saying that the assertion that Democrats are the cause for the violence is basically nothing more than correlation for now. Saying it is just silly as it is unfounded.

People were saying that Trump was empowering white supremacists, the same argument could be made that the Dems are empowering BLM and Antifa.

[mnben87]

@Aragorn

But in this case, the riots themselves were excused in many instances. THAT emboldened them and led to them moving into surrounding areas outside the downtown.

Once a riot has been declared, everyone there is potentially breaking the law. However, the longer the riot is allowed to go the more people join, and the odds of arrest go down.

I have been trying to point out that the logistics of arresting everyone in a big riot is just close to impossible. They need to prioritize the worst offenders.

[chris_ottawa]

If not the worst offenders then at least someone they can make the charges stick to. It’s not nearly as hard as you make it out to be

[antiquity]

@nealdog

I carry no water for Trump, but whatever his flaws, I don’t think he is in any sense totalitarian

I apologize for my flippant response; I was in mode of responding to Pat (which requires one to be flippant to his nonsensical viewpoints). You make some good points and are clearly here to elevate the conversation.

I also don’t think Trump is a totalitarian, but does have the leanings of an authoritarian. I, too, see the problematic confusion between “BLM” the statement (which is what nearly everyone who says this is referring to) and “BLM” the organization.

[mnben87]

@chris_ottawa

People were saying that Trump was empowering white supremacists, the same argument could be made that the Dems are empowering BLM and Antifa.

Both are things that are easy to think, but very hard to actually show to be true. I might think they are true, but I don’t think it is a good argument.

[mnben87]

@chris_ottawa

If not the worst offenders then at least someone they can make the charges stick to. It’s not nearly as hard as you make it out to be

What is the punishment for “rioting”? Most of the time it is a fine. If they have evidence of you perhaps inciting a riot, you may get a bit of time.

[chris_ottawa]

In the article I linked earlier, many people were released without bail after being charged with felony rioting. It’s going to depend on the state I imagine, but a quick search shows it can be punished with 10 years in prison. Inciting a riot is more serious yet.

[mnben87]

@chris_ottawa

but a quick search shows it can be punished with 10 years in prison. Inciting a riot is more serious yet.

A quick search on my end resulted in that it is usually a fine, but in extreme cases up to 5 years.

Maybe these people were issued fines? Or given future court dates? Do we know?

[chris_ottawa]

Released without bail implies that the charges were not dropped, so they must have a court date. But letting them out like that is not much of a deterrent to stop them from joining the riot the next night, and that is the issue here.

[chris_ottawa]

There are only a few possible options for handling this situation. Rioters can be charged and bail set very high so that if they even get out they will think twice about rioting again. This is basically the only realistic way to deal with it, otherwise it’s either a policy of appeasement (see how good it worked with Hitler) or something like Tiananmen Square.

[mnben87]

@chris_ottawa

Rioters can be charged and bail set very high so that if they even get out they will think twice about rioting again.

This isn’t legal in the US. Or it isn’t legal to have unreasonable bail for crimes like this. Having a motive to keep a suspect in jail longer would make the act of setting a high bail illegal.

[chris_ottawa]

The point of bail is not to keep people in jail with not good reason, it is to make sure they appear in court and don’t commit more crimes.

[mnben87]

True, but it has been used for that reason before, and found to be illegal.

If the judge thought the person might flee or something that would be a good reason to set bail high. I don’t think you could say that about all of these people though. You would need to show that they have a high probability of fleeing, with would probably apply to only a very few of them.

[chris_ottawa]

Here is the other part of the problem - celebrities bailing out rioters:

Here Is The List Of Celebrities Paying Bail For Violent Rioters and Looters

The most surprising thing I learned in this article is that Chrissy Teigen is a supermodel. Her face is ugly as fuck.

[chris_ottawa]

In Kenosha they set bail for rioters at 1 million.

If the rioters are from out of town or have been arrested for rioting multiple times then those are very good reasons to set bail very high if not deny it altogether. And from what I have heard, a lot of these rioter are from out of town.