[quote]T-Nick wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Frank.S wrote:
No shit. I’d take a 170 pound thai fighter with BJJ experience over any 260 lb weightlifting guy any day of the week.
[/quote]
True, but just because they are big doesnt mean they don’t know how to fight. One doesn’t cancel the other out. Both combined is pretty scary I hear…
[quote]T-Nick wrote:
No shit. I’d take a 170 pound thai fighter with BJJ experience over any 260 lb weightlifting guy any day of the week.
[/quote]
Who would I take in a fight between a 165 lbs Marvin Hagler in his prime or the local 230 lbs strong guy? Hagler of course.
Skill trumps all. I don’t see anyone arguing that point.
But less than one percent of all people have fighting skills worth jack-shit (although there seem to be an ever growing number of brainless nitwits that think they’re highly skilled but are not).
In 99% of cases a bigger stronger individual is going to beat the crap out of a smaller weaker individual.
Ultimately people would be much better off not fighting at all unless they’ve been ‘backed into a corner’ and are left with no other choice.
[quote]Shaved wrote:
T-Nick wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Frank.S wrote:
No shit. I’d take a 170 pound thai fighter with BJJ experience over any 260 lb weightlifting guy any day of the week.
True, but just because they are big doesnt mean they don’t know how to fight. One doesn’t cancel the other out. Both combined is pretty scary I hear…
[/quote]
Oh yea, totally agree. But I rarely see big guys train Thai/BJJ much. They think that lifting 4 days a week and maybe hitting a heavy bag is sufficient.
I would compare that to a girl who thinks that doing cardio 30 min a day 3 days a week is sufficient for fat loss.
I will say this - its pretty cool in some respects though to “look the part”.
And you have to remember this - looking the part is more than just being huge. Some people just have that look about them, its in the eyes as much as anything. Sometimes you can spot a wrestler buy just the ears.
[quote]storeydp wrote:
But less than one percent of all people have fighting skills worth jack-shit (although there seem to be an ever growing number of brainless nitwits that think they’re highly skilled but are not).
[/quote]
You can catch them every Thursday on Spike TV.
[quote]T-Nick wrote:
Oh yea, totally agree. But I rarely see big guys train Thai/BJJ much. They think that lifting 4 days a week and maybe hitting a heavy bag is sufficient.
[/quote]
I hate to break this to you, as I am sure BJJ and Thai is now the new thang, but there are other fighting techniques and, like said before, the best way to deal with a fight is to avoid it to begin with. Me lifting several days a week IS sufficient. I reach my goals by doing that and I don’t have to prove shit to anyone about how strong I am. The last fight I was even in was as a freshman in college. I was learning basic boxing moves from a pretty early age so I am not sure how some of you assume that larger guys you see in the gym would simply crumble beneath the awesome fighting power of a “Thai hobby” trainer.
If you have no trophies and have gotten in no rings to fight, please spare everyone with how skilled you are.
I used to go out with a girl who was a black belt. Her living room was covered with trophies, some as tall as she was. She earned the right to be called “a fighter”. Other people jumping on the bandwagon just come across as wannabes.
Usualy when a big guy and a smaller guy fight the big guy just gets him on the ground and the smaller guy is screwed of course if to guys are going to “kick box” or just box then the person with training will win the match how ever there isnt much training that will help you in a wrestling match with some one who is much bigger and stronger
[quote]T-Nick wrote:
No shit. I’d take a 170 pound thai fighter with BJJ experience over any 260 lb weightlifting guy any day of the week. [/quote]
A funny (and sad) thing happened in bjj class the other day… It was no gi. I’m still a beginner, and can’t do shit. So a couple of much more epxerienced guys I outweighed by 70-80 pounds wanted to spar with me after class.
They couldn’t do much of anything with me. Instead of having to do an upa, I would just use raw strength to toss them around. One guy almost got me in a triangle hold, but I was able to pull away using zero technique and all raw strength.
I almost let him submit me, just to boost his confidence. I could tell these guys were really bummed out that their technique would not allow them to tap out someone much larger and stronger than them.
While I don’t think I’m even close to being big, I often hear people call me big, so I won’t argue. ;^) I’m sure these kids kept thinking, “Man, I wish I had been born big. It’s not fair!”
Of course, they hadn’t seen me back when I was boxing at 158-163 lbs. And, of course, I was sipping proten powder throughout training and had an MD bar to eat before going to the parking lot. When I returned to my home-office, I started boiling pasta and started munching on cottage cheese, I popped a handfull of fish oil caps, and ate some pecans. And I’ve done just about every difficult workout imaginable, including GVT and 20 rep squats.
But they’ll ignore the YEARS of hard work and smart eating I put in. “Fuck, man, that guy was just born that way.”
Why do little guys assume bigger guys were born big? Is that just a cop out so you don’t have to feel like you’re a failure because you’re small? Or do you really believe that every big guy you’ve evern seen was just born that way?
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
But they’ll ignore the YEARS of hard work and smart eating I put in. “Fuck, man, that guy was just born that way.”
Why do little guys assume bigger guys were born big? Is that just a cop out so you don’t have to feel like you’re a failure because you’re small? Or do you really believe that every big guy you’ve evern seen was just born that way?[/quote]
Ain’t that the truth.
Wise saying my dad used.
A good big un will beat a good little un any day.
size and strenght with skill wins.
oh and about being a big mofo.
I think I am small, I train to be big from what people say 5’10" and 180 is big mofo.
I aint big by any means and I still have room on my frame for alot of muscle.
Small 5’6" and 190 lbs B/F about 12%
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
But they’ll ignore the YEARS of hard work and smart eating I put in. “Fuck, man, that guy was just born that way.”
Why do little guys assume bigger guys were born big? Is that just a cop out so you don’t have to feel like you’re a failure because you’re small? Or do you really believe that every big guy you’ve evern seen was just born that way?[/quote]
Interestingly enough, at least 3 of T-Nation’s resident huge guys, Bauer,Prof X and Amsterdam Animal were all skinny newbs before they started.
[quote]welshman wrote:
Wise saying my dad used.
A good big un will beat a good little un any day.
size and strenght with skill wins.
oh and about being a big mofo.
I think I am small, I train to be big from what people say 5’10" and 180 is big mofo.
I aint big by any means and I still have room on my frame for alot of muscle.
Small 5’6" and 190 lbs B/F about 12%
[/quote]
Quoted for truth, I used to get harrased by a kung fu instructor in an open sparring class, he used to tell me my size would make me slow and easy to see coming. Even after i tapped his students on the mat repeatedly.
And BJJ (more of a gracie philosphy) is guilty of telling students they dont need strength to win, “its about timing and leverage”, this is true to an extent against low or unskilled opponents, but when you opponent is as skilled as you are but your stronger it does’nt take a genius to figure out who will win. Sure cite Royce Gracie who tapped guys much bigger than himself, but royce is the micheal jordan of grappling.
[quote]welshman wrote:
Wise saying my dad used.
A good big un will beat a good little un any day.
[/quote]
Damn it, Welshman, ya beat me to it. My coach (a Scotsman) used to say almost the exact same thing: “The good big man will beat the fuck out of the good little man every day of the week.”
He was a quite good fighter. And big.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Frank.S wrote:
You guys ever heard of little man syndrome?
I don’t know why we have to go over this again.
Bodybuilding don’t make you tough, and a fighter isn’t a bodybuilder. You’re comparing apples and baseballs here. Don’t make sense.[/quote]
Have you ever hit an apple with a baseball bat? I rest my case.
DB
[quote]der FrostBack77 wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
But they’ll ignore the YEARS of hard work and smart eating I put in. “Fuck, man, that guy was just born that way.”
Why do little guys assume bigger guys were born big? Is that just a cop out so you don’t have to feel like you’re a failure because you’re small? Or do you really believe that every big guy you’ve evern seen was just born that way?
Interestingly enough, at least 3 of T-Nation’s resident huge guys, Bauer,Prof X and Amsterdam Animal were all skinny newbs before they started.[/quote]
No one I know believes it. I’ve stopped telling people. I brought one of my high school senior pics to work one time and they tripped out. That is why guys shouldn’t give a shit about people who talk down to them because they bulked up a little. Very few people even understand long term physical goals. They see someone muscular and blame everything EXCEPT hard work for why they look that way.
But seriously, who’s gonna start shit with a 250 lb black man with a shaved head anyway?
yeah you gotta respect people that fight ESPECIALLY when they are strong! i hate seeing those skinny bastards saying oh you do MMA but you are overweight, you got too much mass to be quick, i’m gonna beat you with my kung fu! yeah so i learn it the hard way! i was fat at the beggining and weak so i did a shit program the SOUTH BEACH and went down from 190lbs to 156lbs my height is 5’10 now i’m at 177lbs!
i’m trying to get to at least 187 at the end of the year if possible, so i learned the hard way, i just starting to get REALLY strong when my sensei put me to do deadlifts, know i can tell STRENTGH DOES MATTER, all my life training karate and BJJ and Wrestling i was always the weaker one having to deal with the technique versus strentgh stuff,
and if you want to see the difference i have this guy that i train with he is same height and weight that me, but that difference is that he just think in speed and doesn’t lift any weight, i OWN him everytime we wrestle or BJJ, now he started lifting weights because of that…
to a MMA fighter and ANY STYLE fighter lifting weights is important most of all because i want to fight at a higher classe despite my height, i’ll plan getting to 200 lbs to then cut to something like 180lbs at minimum. and for no i didn’t get better when i lost all that fat, i got skinny fat lost my strength and got an herniated disc because of too much stress on lower back… now start up eating a lot and lift heavy!(but i say its hard to train MMA and do deadlifts that because i can’t even squat yet because of my back! let the next year come!!) i don’t why the hell in a BODYBUILDING site for LIFTIN FUCKIN’ STRONG people keep creating stupid topics i wanna a chizzled six pack…
yeah hell with it i want to get strong and big and kick the hell out of everyone in the ring… well it turned into a little runt… sorry guys! stay heavy!
I blame the popularity of the UFC for this new everybody is a bad-ass syndrome. For the record I moonlight as a bouncer at a busy Hamptons party spot and all I can say is if someone knows how to fight they’re hard to deal with if they’re large and know how to fight they’re harder to deal with. And I’m talking really knowing how to fight not Frat boy patty-cake fighting.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
T-Nick wrote:
If you have no trophies and have gotten in no rings to fight, please spare everyone with how skilled you are.
[/quote]
Just a Gracie JJ open champion at my weight class. Not much really, but still pretty dam cool thing to have.
yeah here too, actually where i live it’s the MMA syndrome! every place i go i have to hear about the how tough they are in MMA, or what about Muay Thai?? everybody fuckin’ body is doing that right now, at least is what the playboys says, it pisses me off, more than non-lifters that go to the gym just to talk and make SOCIAL argh
[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
every place i go i have to hear about the how tough they are in MMA, or what about Muay Thai?? everybody fuckin’ body is doing that right now[/quote]
To me, that is more telling than anything. That so many people do muay thai is good evidence it is not nearly as demanding as boxing. People, after all, are almost always more concerned with what is easier rather than what is more effective.
Just as more guys do leg presses than squats, so too are the “MMA guys” on this forum taking thai boxing rather than boxing in a rough-looking gym in a not-so great part of town.
Yeah, I know you “thai boxers” do a lot of drills and whatnot, and that it’s a great workout. Cool. Spinning is also a exhausting workout. But you’re not getting your body and head pounded for several three round intervals. People just don’t get it.
Until you’ve boxed, you have no idea what “sparring” really is.
So go find a boxing gym - not one of those “white collar” boxing gyms either. Lace up some gloves and puke after getting hit in the stomach. Wake up with a headache that won’t quit. Then come tell me how demanding and effective thai boxing is.