T Nation

Republicans: Hackneyed Political Theater?


There's a place for honest debate. The theatrics of the last few days have not been honest debate. Distractions and politicking have taken over. The times are too serious and the crisis to vast for this to continue.

"[i]A not-so-funny thing happened on the way to economic recovery. Over the last two weeks, what should have been a deadly serious debate about how to save an economy in desperate straits turned, instead, into hackneyed political theater, with Republicans spouting all the old clichés about wasteful government spending and the wonders of tax cuts.

It?s as if the dismal economic failure of the last eight years never happened ? yet Democrats have, incredibly, been on the defensive. Even if a major stimulus bill does pass the Senate, there?s a real risk that important parts of the original plan, especially aid to state and local governments, will have been emasculated.

Somehow, Washington has lost any sense of what?s at stake ? of the reality that we may well be falling into an economic abyss, and that if we do, it will be very hard to get out again.

It?s hard to exaggerate how much economic trouble we?re in. [/i]"

We're in a crisis. Only fools argue against this. No one can be sure that any stimulus package can work, but government spending and tax cuts are needed. The exact composition of the bill can and should be debated, but lets be constructive and demand constructive arguments from our leaders.


There is SO MUCH of that bill that is LIBERAL POLICY SPENDING only. It was written BEFORE Obama took office by Reid and Pelosi. They suspended any debates in congress and forced something that should be looked over through so nobody could read the damn thing. That's smoke and mirrors.


Funny as this 'stimulus' is mostly nothing more than typical social engineering programs the Left hasn't been able to pass for years.

A notable dissent from Congress-- 11 democrats voted against the Obama Stimulus. Walt Minnick a Dem from Idaho was rebuffed by his own party for paring down to a 170 billion dollar package-- it consisted of classic 'roads and bridges' (ie true infrastructure) programs and tax cuts.

A difference of 700 BILLION dollars. Why is that not a good place to start?


It's not just Republicans that don't like the Spendulus Package. As you can see, the more the public learns about what the money is being spent on, the more people (Dems too) disagree with it:



It's not a stimulus package it's a spending package. Calling it what it is would go along way towards a real debate.

The bill in question will dwarf all spending bills before it, ever. It will expand entitlements far beyond anything ever envisioned and is unsupportable. It will drain future growth for the promise of possible immediate comfort and the repayment of political debt.

Actually having a real debate and considering ideas put forth by those outside the ruling core of the party would also go along way in crafting effective legislation. The leadership in congress is dead set against that, and so is the chosen one. The commissar of the house has actually forbidden it when she changed the rules.

Nobody doubts the seriousness of the issue but economic suicide is not the answer. It's a bad bill and cooperation isn't the answer, effective and strong leadership in a time of crisis is. Unfortunately we elected Obama so we are going to have to rely on luck at this point.

Doing nothing but helping those who are unemployed and lowering taxes is far preferable to the madness that has been proposed by the Democrats so far.

I do agree with Obama on one point. It must be passed now. The American public is waking up and support is dropping like a rock. In another week it will be suicidal to pass it and they will have to rethink it. In actuality that is the only real urgency in this bill.


Here is the much talked about letter from the CBO to congress. Draw your own conclusions.



I thought we needed to rely on "Hope"!


Hope we're lucky?


Hello, there.

Haven't run across you here (unless you have used a different screen name in the past.)

I hope you realize that the Republican Party was slapped around in 2006 and 2008 because our Representatives weren't acting like Conservatives. Bush did poorly domestically because he was a bad party leader.

Unfortunately for everyone, the American People turned over the keys to the current democratic party. The characters in the leadership positions are quite frightening.

I can only speak for myself, but, I'll bet there are many more like me out here who are thrilled the Republicans are standing against this disgusting spending bill.

This bill was nothing more than foisting a liberal wish list on our country under the guise of the current crisis.

Almost a million dollars for A GOLF COURSE?

This is the time for any liberals on this board to state their opposition to this bill. If you don't, then it's safe to assume that you cannot deviate one iota from the party line. Therefore, you shall be simple to ignore.

Suprise me,



I was reading an article in the WSJ from a few days ago where they calculate the amount of money actually being spent on infrastructure in the current bill to be about $90 billion. Here's a list of some of the other stuff being thrown into this bill:

My favorites include the $600 million ofr hybrid vehicles for government employees and the $650 million for digital tv converters.


The package is a load of horseshit. It's full of blackholes in which to dump money. Many of the "shovel ready" projects are temporary work. The stimulus is a spending bill no doubt and I am not against spending money, but it has to be in the right places.

For this thing to make any sense at all, all the give-aways in the bill need to be gotten rid of. The money must be invested to were it will give a return on investment otherwise what's the point. It's better just to cut everybody a check and hope they spend it.

Roads, education, "clean" energy, etc. does not give you a return on your investment, the money simply disappears.

If they are going to do a package it needs to consist of tax cuts and the purchasing of goods and services from the private sector. Not force money into social engineering projects, that won't help.

Obama's leadership skills are coming through in a big way, rather than cooperate and negotiate, he is just trying to strong arm the Republicans in to going along with it. That's not the bi-partisanship he promise?I get the suspicion that he thought he could talk people into going his way and that?s not working.

As it stands, he does not have the senate votes to pass it. I hope it goes to vote and gets shot down, then they can scrap it and start over. A little humble pie may be good for the President.


Republicans/Democrats = Republicrats.

Seriously with either party, what the fuck is the difference nowadays? Both parties argue over stupid, nonsensical issues (ie steroids in baseball, who gives a shit!) rather than address the real issues that plague this country. The truth is there really are no differences between either party.

They both support big government, tax and spend policies, the American Empire, a flawed foreign policy, money sucking social programs and further eroding the rights of individuals and the constitution.

This "stimulus bill" makes me sick. How are we going to pay for this? We aren't. The fed is merely going to write checks to itself and inflate the currency even more. Except those politically well connected will benefit before the middle and lower classes do.

There should be a complete realignment in the scheme of things. It should now be the republicrats (Socialists/big government) versus the constitutionalists (rights of individuals).


The republican aren't doing anything positive here. It's all for show.

Part of their suggestion was to restructure mortgages, encourage more lending, and guarentee a market for these loans through Freddie and Fannie. This is exactly what got in to this. Amazing.

They are all liberals at this point.


Well put. You left out the broadly bipartisan support for open borders and ten million more illegal immigrants, not to mention both parties being slaves of Wall Street, but otherwise, agreed.


Wrong. This is the same fear-mongering that got us the TARP in the first place.

Our fundamental problem as a nation is that we have been borrowing against the future, and thinking there will never be consequences, for decades now.

So at a time when a severe recession could cause a realignment and actually make people SAVE MONEY, the solution is to kick the problem down the road by encouraging more spending and consumption?! Please tell me how this makes sense.


Agreed. I should have included that as well. Both parties are so out of touch with most Americans it is almost beyond comprehension how these crackpots are in power.

Maybe it is our Department of Education that tells our children that the only way to solve anything is to have government get involved. Either way Americans are being lied to by their media and their government, it is amazing that any common sense policies actually come to light.

However I think that once the dollar collapses, and it this point it is not a question of if but when, then and only then, when misery among the people is truly rife that "change" will come.

But I fear that the "change" that will come will be in the form of tyranny rather than return to individual rights and freedom so espoused by our constitution. Pity.


Draw your own conclusions:

"would have a noticeable impact on economic growth and employment in the next few years."

The actual CBO report:

hedo, you don't know what you're talking about, hence moronic statements like "Obama will NEVER win Pennsylvania" (actual quote from a PA resident!) You have no credibility. None.

But if we're going by the CBO, let's go by their actual full report that says yes the spending/stimulus (same you dolt) will have the intended effect.


You can only be bi-partisan so much with members of a party who are nearly insane. For example almost all senate republicans voted for an amendment turning the stimulus totally into tax cuts. I think 36 of the nuts out of 40 voted for it! So how far do you reach out to bat-shit insane republicans?


Yes and you called the election for Kerry in 2004. (actual quote from a MA resident). Fucking loser.

You need to actually read the report you dumbfuck before you speakout of turn.

The silly part is the letter the CBO is posted so anyone else here can read it too.

Try again, although the comedy you think passes for arguments are priceless. Almost as funny as Obama's cabinet picks.


About 20 years ago, Japan faced a situation similar to the one we are facing right now, and they undertook a course of action that was similar to the one we are undertaking right now. They carried on with this 'solution' for over ten years.

About 20 years later, that period is remembered as "Japan's Lost Decade".

Explain to me why the outcome will be different for us than it was for them. Pretend that I'm as stupid as you think I am, and use small words and simple ideas.

You claim that doing the opposite of what didn't work for the Japanese is "bat-shit insane", so it must be a pretty obvious reason that following the Japs' lead will work for us this time around.