T Nation

Republican Whistleblower

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
I went to DefCon.

The diebold machines and all other E-voting machines are RIDICULOUSLY unsafe. I met people there, kids really, who could pop shell on a diebold in less than 120 seconds. No tools necessary.

For all you old folks, popping shell means the hacker behind the wheel can do whatever the hell he wants to the machine, including altering votes, numbers, hell even candidates!

For gods sakes, people bring these things home and put them in garages and call that security! Pay attention people… if Iran’s President did such a thing and called his elections valid we’d laugh in his face![/quote]

Unsupervised people can rig any form of balloting.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
I went to DefCon.

The diebold machines and all other E-voting machines are RIDICULOUSLY unsafe. I met people there, kids really, who could pop shell on a diebold in less than 120 seconds. No tools necessary.

For all you old folks, popping shell means the hacker behind the wheel can do whatever the hell he wants to the machine, including altering votes, numbers, hell even candidates!

For gods sakes, people bring these things home and put them in garages and call that security! Pay attention people… if Iran’s President did such a thing and called his elections valid we’d laugh in his face!

Unsupervised people can rig any form of balloting.[/quote]

And that means we should make it as easy as possible?

With the touch of a button, miles away?

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
I went to DefCon.

The diebold machines and all other E-voting machines are RIDICULOUSLY unsafe. I met people there, kids really, who could pop shell on a diebold in less than 120 seconds. No tools necessary.

For all you old folks, popping shell means the hacker behind the wheel can do whatever the hell he wants to the machine, including altering votes, numbers, hell even candidates!

For gods sakes, people bring these things home and put them in garages and call that security! Pay attention people… if Iran’s President did such a thing and called his elections valid we’d laugh in his face![/quote]

So your saying the democrats rigged the last election?

That’s why we have to supervise them ALL.

[quote]orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
I went to DefCon.

The diebold machines and all other E-voting machines are RIDICULOUSLY unsafe. I met people there, kids really, who could pop shell on a diebold in less than 120 seconds. No tools necessary.

For all you old folks, popping shell means the hacker behind the wheel can do whatever the hell he wants to the machine, including altering votes, numbers, hell even candidates!

For gods sakes, people bring these things home and put them in garages and call that security! Pay attention people… if Iran’s President did such a thing and called his elections valid we’d laugh in his face!

Unsupervised people can rig any form of balloting.

And that means we should make it as easy as possible?

With the touch of a button, miles away? [/quote]

The Mexicans don’t think so.

The country came to a standstill after allegations of rigging were made public. The country was on the brink of a civil war and the opposition is still challenging the results.

Diebold played a central role in those elections. What’s more, the software used in polling station was designed by Calderon’s (the declared winner) brother-in-law.

It didn’t stop Bush and Arnold from flying to Mexico and toasting their pal’s victory.

[quote]lixy wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
I went to DefCon.

The diebold machines and all other E-voting machines are RIDICULOUSLY unsafe. I met people there, kids really, who could pop shell on a diebold in less than 120 seconds. No tools necessary.

For all you old folks, popping shell means the hacker behind the wheel can do whatever the hell he wants to the machine, including altering votes, numbers, hell even candidates!

For gods sakes, people bring these things home and put them in garages and call that security! Pay attention people… if Iran’s President did such a thing and called his elections valid we’d laugh in his face!

Unsupervised people can rig any form of balloting.

And that means we should make it as easy as possible?

With the touch of a button, miles away?

The Mexicans don’t think so.

The country came to a standstill after allegations of rigging were made public. The country was on the brink of a civil war and the opposition is still challenging the results.

Diebold played a central role in those elections. What’s more, the software used in polling station was designed by Calderon’s (the declared winner) brother-in-law.

It didn’t stop Bush and Arnold from flying to Mexico and toasting their pal’s victory.[/quote]

What mexicans in mexico? They are all over here sucking our infrastructure dry.

This is eerily similar to all the 9/11 conspiracy bunk. I watched an aviation expert (a real one) absolutely destroy one of those 9/11 Scholars for Truth Idiots.

It is so easy to call into question anything that is slightly technical because the cost for throwing up claims is very cheap and the cost to disprove the claim is very high. Hence the Kennedy Assassination conspiracies, the Moon Landings, 9/11, and the “stolen” elections. Why are these almost always on the left by the way?

I was about to make a joke and say this was all old news and that Rove and Cheney obviously did it with help from Blackwater and Ollie North … then I followed the link and saw that my joke was their reality …

[quote]flyboy51v wrote:
This is eerily similar to all the 9/11 conspiracy bunk. I watched an aviation expert (a real one) absolutely destroy one of those 9/11 Scholars for Truth Idiots.

It is so easy to call into question anything that is slightly technical because the cost for throwing up claims is very cheap and the cost to disprove the claim is very high. Hence the Kennedy Assassination conspiracies, the Moon Landings, 9/11, and the “stolen” elections. Why are these almost always on the left by the way?

I was about to make a joke and say this was all old news and that Rove and Cheney obviously did it with help from Blackwater and Ollie North … then I followed the link and saw that my joke was their reality …
[/quote]

Please explain what 9/11 has to do with pointing out to existing security flaws in voting machines.

[quote]lixy wrote:
flyboy51v wrote:
This is eerily similar to all the 9/11 conspiracy bunk. I watched an aviation expert (a real one) absolutely destroy one of those 9/11 Scholars for Truth Idiots.

It is so easy to call into question anything that is slightly technical because the cost for throwing up claims is very cheap and the cost to disprove the claim is very high. Hence the Kennedy Assassination conspiracies, the Moon Landings, 9/11, and the “stolen” elections. Why are these almost always on the left by the way?

I was about to make a joke and say this was all old news and that Rove and Cheney obviously did it with help from Blackwater and Ollie North … then I followed the link and saw that my joke was their reality …

Please explain what 9/11 has to do with pointing out to existing security flaws in voting machines.[/quote]

They’re both the subject of wild conspiracy theories.

[quote]flyboy51v wrote:
lixy wrote:
flyboy51v wrote:
This is eerily similar to all the 9/11 conspiracy bunk. I watched an aviation expert (a real one) absolutely destroy one of those 9/11 Scholars for Truth Idiots.

It is so easy to call into question anything that is slightly technical because the cost for throwing up claims is very cheap and the cost to disprove the claim is very high.

Hence the Kennedy Assassination conspiracies, the Moon Landings, 9/11, and the “stolen” elections. Why are these almost always on the left by the way?

I was about to make a joke and say this was all old news and that Rove and Cheney obviously did it with help from Blackwater and Ollie North … then I followed the link and saw that my joke was their reality …

Please explain what 9/11 has to do with pointing out to existing security flaws in voting machines.

They’re both the subject of wild conspiracy theories. [/quote]

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/guilt-by-association.html

[quote]lixy wrote:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/guilt-by-association.html[/quote]

You evidently didn’t read what the fallacy means.

But that’s just about par for the baby-raping course, right lixy?

Please contribute something remotely relevant, or shut the fuck up.

[quote]flyboy51v wrote:
lixy wrote:
flyboy51v wrote:
This is eerily similar to all the 9/11 conspiracy bunk. I watched an aviation expert (a real one) absolutely destroy one of those 9/11 Scholars for Truth Idiots.

It is so easy to call into question anything that is slightly technical because the cost for throwing up claims is very cheap and the cost to disprove the claim is very high. Hence the Kennedy Assassination conspiracies, the Moon Landings, 9/11, and the “stolen” elections. Why are these almost always on the left by the way?

I was about to make a joke and say this was all old news and that Rove and Cheney obviously did it with help from Blackwater and Ollie North … then I followed the link and saw that my joke was their reality …

Please explain what 9/11 has to do with pointing out to existing security flaws in voting machines.

They’re both the subject of wild conspiracy theories.
[/quote]

What you do not seem to understand is that, there is an old saying that justice not only has to BE fair and impartial it also most under all circumstances APPEAR to be fair and impartial.

Fiat justitia et pereat mundi.

The same is true for the democratic process. The very real possibility that such machines can be tampered with, is already too much.

The rumor itself is already a problem.

Especially in a country where elections are decided by swing states by very small margins that could theoretically be swung either way very easily.

[quote]orion wrote:
flyboy51v wrote:
lixy wrote:
flyboy51v wrote:
This is eerily similar to all the 9/11 conspiracy bunk. I watched an aviation expert (a real one) absolutely destroy one of those 9/11 Scholars for Truth Idiots.

It is so easy to call into question anything that is slightly technical because the cost for throwing up claims is very cheap and the cost to disprove the claim is very high. Hence the Kennedy Assassination conspiracies, the Moon Landings, 9/11, and the “stolen” elections. Why are these almost always on the left by the way?

I was about to make a joke and say this was all old news and that Rove and Cheney obviously did it with help from Blackwater and Ollie North … then I followed the link and saw that my joke was their reality …

Please explain what 9/11 has to do with pointing out to existing security flaws in voting machines.

They’re both the subject of wild conspiracy theories.

What you do not seem to understand is that, there is an old saying that justice not only has to BE fair and impartial it also most under all circumstances APPEAR to be fair and impartial.

Fiat justitia et pereat mundi.

The same is true for the democratic process. The very real possibility that such machines can be tampered with, is already too much.

The rumor itself is already a problem.

Especially in a country where elections are decided by swing states by very small margins that could theoretically be swung either way very easily.

[/quote]

What proven secure method should be used? I remember manual paper ballots also being part of a huge conspiracy charge. “Is that a dent from handling, or an attempted ballot punch?” “Was or wasn’t the chain of custody for county X’s ballots compromised?”

“Did they count absentee ballots?” “Did witnesses really see some people being given two ballots?”

It’s one thing to suggest there are security issues, but this thread started off as some sort of republican conspiracy accusation. What was the conspiracy? To give democrats congress?

[quote]Sloth wrote:
orion wrote:
flyboy51v wrote:
lixy wrote:
flyboy51v wrote:
This is eerily similar to all the 9/11 conspiracy bunk. I watched an aviation expert (a real one) absolutely destroy one of those 9/11 Scholars for Truth Idiots.

It is so easy to call into question anything that is slightly technical because the cost for throwing up claims is very cheap and the cost to disprove the claim is very high.

Hence the Kennedy Assassination conspiracies, the Moon Landings, 9/11, and the “stolen” elections. Why are these almost always on the left by the way?

I was about to make a joke and say this was all old news and that Rove and Cheney obviously did it with help from Blackwater and Ollie North … then I followed the link and saw that my joke was their reality …

Please explain what 9/11 has to do with pointing out to existing security flaws in voting machines.

They’re both the subject of wild conspiracy theories.

What you do not seem to understand is that, there is an old saying that justice not only has to BE fair and impartial it also most under all circumstances APPEAR to be fair and impartial.

Fiat justitia et pereat mundi.

The same is true for the democratic process. The very real possibility that such machines can be tampered with, is already too much.

The rumor itself is already a problem.

Especially in a country where elections are decided by swing states by very small margins that could theoretically be swung either way very easily.

What proven secure method should be used? I remember manual paper ballots also being part of a huge conspiracy charge. “Is that a dent from handling, or an attempted ballot punch?” “Was or wasn’t the chain of custody for county X’s ballots compromised?” “Did they count absentee ballots?”

“Did witnesses really see some people being given two ballots?”
It’s one thing to suggest there are security issues, but this thread started off as some sort of republican conspiracy accusation. What was the conspiracy? To give democrats congress?[/quote]

First, if you want to tamper with paper ballots you have to do it one at a time, with members of both major parties watching.

That is different from tampering with voting machines.

Than, this thread did not start out that way, the guy was just immediately dismissed because he was presented on a left wing website, which is just plain partisan douchebaggery.

If there is one question however that goes far beyond partisan politics it is the democratic precess itself and the whistle blower is a republican.

I know that because he himself says so and it is the title of the thread which kind of gave it away for me.

[quote]orion wrote:

First, if you want to tamper with paper ballots you have to do it one at a time, with members of both major parties watching.

That is different from tampering with voting machines.

Than, this thread did not start out that way, the guy was just immediately dismissed because he was presented on a left wing website, which is just plain partisan douchebaggery.

If there is one question however that goes far beyond partisan politics it is the democratic precess itself and the whistle blower is a republican.

I know that because he himself says so and it is the title of the thread which kind of gave it away for me.

[/quote]

The whole push to get electronic voting machines was caused by the hanging, dangling, dimpled chadded Florida ballot count. Everyone (read that whiny, little, bitch-assed democrats) screamed for the electronic shit.

And the dipshit was dismissed not just because of where the interview was found, but that the first words out of his mouth were that he had never even seen one of the machines in question.

SO we have an issue that was ultimately instigated by left-wing whining, and now a left-wing site is parading some nut fob who has never even seen the fucking machine as their star witness in their latest “right wing conspiracy”.

All the while the right loses control of the Senate, and gives up seats in the house. I know the republicans are the DC version of monkeys fucking a football, but even they can’t fuck shit up so bad that they cede power to the left by messing with the voting machines.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
orion wrote:

First, if you want to tamper with paper ballots you have to do it one at a time, with members of both major parties watching.

That is different from tampering with voting machines.

Than, this thread did not start out that way, the guy was just immediately dismissed because he was presented on a left wing website, which is just plain partisan douchebaggery.

If there is one question however that goes far beyond partisan politics it is the democratic precess itself and the whistle blower is a republican.

I know that because he himself says so and it is the title of the thread which kind of gave it away for me.

The whole push to get electronic voting machines was caused by the hanging, dangling, dimpled chadded Florida ballot count. Everyone (read that whiny, little, bitch-assed democrats) screamed for the electronic shit.

And the dipshit was dismissed not just because of where the interview was found, but that the first words out of his mouth were that he had never even seen one of the machines in question.

SO we have an issue that was ultimately instigated by left-wing whining, and now a left-wing site is parading some nut fob who has never even seen the fucking machine as their star witness in their latest “right wing conspiracy”.

All the while the right loses control of the Senate, and gives up seats in the house. I know the republicans are the DC version of monkeys fucking a football, but even they can’t fuck shit up so bad that they cede power to the left by messing with the voting machines.

[/quote]

I wholeheartedly agree with almost your whole post, but you are not really arguing that the machines were a good idea because the Democrats wanted them?

So government fucked up and wasted tons of money.

Must you suffer for it through the next century because of it?

[quote]orion wrote:
rainjack wrote:
orion wrote:

First, if you want to tamper with paper ballots you have to do it one at a time, with members of both major parties watching.

That is different from tampering with voting machines.

Than, this thread did not start out that way, the guy was just immediately dismissed because he was presented on a left wing website, which is just plain partisan douchebaggery.

If there is one question however that goes far beyond partisan politics it is the democratic precess itself and the whistle blower is a republican.

I know that because he himself says so and it is the title of the thread which kind of gave it away for me.

The whole push to get electronic voting machines was caused by the hanging, dangling, dimpled chadded Florida ballot count. Everyone (read that whiny, little, bitch-assed democrats) screamed for the electronic shit.

And the dipshit was dismissed not just because of where the interview was found, but that the first words out of his mouth were that he had never even seen one of the machines in question.

SO we have an issue that was ultimately instigated by left-wing whining, and now a left-wing site is parading some nut fob who has never even seen the fucking machine as their star witness in their latest “right wing conspiracy”.

All the while the right loses control of the Senate, and gives up seats in the house. I know the republicans are the DC version of monkeys fucking a football, but even they can’t fuck shit up so bad that they cede power to the left by messing with the voting machines.

I wholeheartedly agree with almost your whole post, but you are not really arguing that the machines were a good idea because the Democrats wanted them?

So government fucked up and wasted tons of money.

Must you suffer for it through the next century because of it?

[/quote]

No. I am not saying that. I am saying that the dipshits on the left are whining because of a problem that their previous whining caused. They blame republicans, or the vast right wing conspiracy for the inaccuracies, and parade a fucking republican around as if it gives their position some credibility. They are spoiled little fucks.

I think the machines were a stupid idea from the get go.

But because of the bureaucratic black hole we have, you cannot undo goat screws nearly as fast as they can be created.

Why is it electronic ballot boxes are an issue in even number years? Seems to me that a certain group is just laying the groundwork for a huge-assed bitch session come the middle of November.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
orion wrote:
rainjack wrote:
orion wrote:

First, if you want to tamper with paper ballots you have to do it one at a time, with members of both major parties watching.

That is different from tampering with voting machines.

Than, this thread did not start out that way, the guy was just immediately dismissed because he was presented on a left wing website, which is just plain partisan douchebaggery.

If there is one question however that goes far beyond partisan politics it is the democratic precess itself and the whistle blower is a republican.

I know that because he himself says so and it is the title of the thread which kind of gave it away for me.

The whole push to get electronic voting machines was caused by the hanging, dangling, dimpled chadded Florida ballot count. Everyone (read that whiny, little, bitch-assed democrats) screamed for the electronic shit.

And the dipshit was dismissed not just because of where the interview was found, but that the first words out of his mouth were that he had never even seen one of the machines in question.

SO we have an issue that was ultimately instigated by left-wing whining, and now a left-wing site is parading some nut fob who has never even seen the fucking machine as their star witness in their latest “right wing conspiracy”.

All the while the right loses control of the Senate, and gives up seats in the house. I know the republicans are the DC version of monkeys fucking a football, but even they can’t fuck shit up so bad that they cede power to the left by messing with the voting machines.

I wholeheartedly agree with almost your whole post, but you are not really arguing that the machines were a good idea because the Democrats wanted them?

So government fucked up and wasted tons of money.

Must you suffer for it through the next century because of it?

No. I am not saying that. I am saying that the dipshits on the left are whining because of a problem that their previous whining caused. They blame republicans, or the vast right wing conspiracy for the inaccuracies, and parade a fucking republican around as if it gives their position some credibility. They are spoiled little fucks.

I think the machines were a stupid idea from the get go.

But because of the bureaucratic black hole we have, you cannot undo goat screws nearly as fast as they can be created.

Why is it electronic ballot boxes are an issue in even number years? Seems to me that a certain group is just laying the groundwork for a huge-assed bitch session come the middle of November.

[/quote]

I’m with you guys on the electronic voting. The paper ballots were fine. I’m just tired of the endless parade of conspiracies. You know … karl Rove hacking the network while Cheney holds the laptop.

The democrats have a century’s worth of expertise on cheating with paper ballots in the South and in Chicago … but the potential with the digital is worse. It’s largely agreed that Daley threw the election to Kennedy in Cook County. But it’s very, very rare that that kind of stuff can effect a vote in a country with 300,000,000.

What’s possibly worse than the Diebold machines is all the motor voter laws, and the change from election day to election month. Frankly … most of the changes they’re making in terms of registration and voting are horrible.

[quote]lixy wrote:
flyboy51v wrote:
lixy wrote:
flyboy51v wrote:
This is eerily similar to all the 9/11 conspiracy bunk. I watched an aviation expert (a real one) absolutely destroy one of those 9/11 Scholars for Truth Idiots.

It is so easy to call into question anything that is slightly technical because the cost for throwing up claims is very cheap and the cost to disprove the claim is very high.

Hence the Kennedy Assassination conspiracies, the Moon Landings, 9/11, and the “stolen” elections. Why are these almost always on the left by the way?

I was about to make a joke and say this was all old news and that Rove and Cheney obviously did it with help from Blackwater and Ollie North … then I followed the link and saw that my joke was their reality …

Please explain what 9/11 has to do with pointing out to existing security flaws in voting machines.

They’re both the subject of wild conspiracy theories.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/guilt-by-association.html[/quote]

I just followed your Guilt by Association link. You missed my point not surprisingly. I’m not discounting the voting machine conspiracy simply because it’s a conspiracy theory. I’m discounting it because any idiot can make wild claims on a technical subject and unless we’re all willing to go hire some people who REALLY know what they’re talking about it becomes a pointless discussion.

Like … arguing about the moon landings. I could find some “expert” on youtube who has all kinds of “proof” and “evidence” that the landings never happened. Of course they did happen … but how do you argue about it? It becomes a “yes they did” … “no they didn’t” argument.

I had some guy a few months ago go at it on the moon landings. One of his points that proved it was fake was that the flags they planted were always out stiff like the wind was blowing … but “gasp” there’s no wind on the moon!!!

I told him that they were actually aware of the “wind problem” before they went and the flags were MADE stiff so you could see the flag.

Oh …