T Nation

Replying to Trolls in PWI


#1

[edit] Enjoy the thread. I guess at least it didn't turn into another "libertarianism" thread. [/ edit]

What do you all think? Personally, I've wanted Joseph Kony dead for a long, long time. I would be quite pleased if a predator drone were to take him out. That said, I don't really want our country in bed with Yoweri Museveni either.

I'm still formulating an opinion. So I'd like to hear what PWI thinks.


#2

I don't think you can reform dumb people by killing one of them. This sort of thing is typical and widespread in Africa. LRA just gets press cuz they are the 'McDonald's' of all the fast & cheap inhumanity vendors. So we kill Joseph Kony...the child soldiers, cannibalism, rapes, screw baby to get rid of aids, kill-white-farmer-till-we-starve-then-demand-aid and crony kleptocracy of Africa persists...what was accomplished? You will empty the ocean by filling a bucket? Why waste your time?

Unless we recolonize the continent ala the Chinese, I see no point to waste money trying to fix people who are obviously operating on an 85 IQ level as a societal whole. You may as well send Navy Seals to the middle of the ocean to teach dolphins to brush their teeth. You might actually have more success.

It's just like the Iraq war, whenever money and blood are spent you always got to ask - wtf do we get for doing this?


#3

More than likely a heavy CIA presence already there and in neighbouring Kenya, Ethiopa, Southern Sudan and Eritrea - training those governments, gathering intelligence and attacking al-Shabab and the National Islamic Front of Sudan. Uganda, Kenya and Eritrea formed a US-backed alliance against the National Islamic Front throughout the 1990's.

We are already in a world war and this is just another theatre so this means little.


#4

YOUR stupidity astounds me.


#5

So essentially, what you're saying is that African people are inherently stupid?

Are you even minutely aware of how racist your comment is?


#6

Museveni has done some good things - the AIDs crisis in Uganda was much lower than in other African countries because of a grown up approach to contraception. However as his tenure has worn on he has become increasingly tyrannical. The LRA are a nasty nasty bunch, and they're spread not only in Uganda but DROC. If they were removed there could be major infrastructure investment in this region which could really help. Anyway if there are 'advisors' going then there's definitely a heavy CIA presence - bet the UK are involved there too.


#7

If I had said that Eastern Europe and Latin American had business cultures that were plagued by corruption would you have said that was racist?

You drew your own conclusion from the evidence given, I did not tell you that.
I wasn't aware 'facts' were racist. I thought racism was predicated on advocating the superiority of your group over others.

Care to share what exactly was false or incorrect in my assertion? You have evidence that demonstrates otherwise?

You can attenmpt to discredit the validity of IQ as an accurate measure of intellect, but you cannot discredit the outcomes of the tests by region and race. These have been repeated many times to similar results.

I actually was being very racially sensitive in my community as despite the fact that the scores fall into the 70 IQ range of most subsaharan African nations, I gave them an 85 level to be functioning above the retard gradient.


#8

You pretty much said how superior you were. By you definition that is racist.

Uhh what will be taken in return? The good of mankind? improving there quality of life, which could be argued was caused by colinisation of Africa and the slave trade in particular by america.

Plus stone age? did you ever hear of timbuktu?


#9

The average IQ of sub-Saharan Africans is around 70.

That could be due to malnutrition, infectious diseases or, yes, it could be genetic.

This is, as far as we know, fact, and facts are rarely racist.

So, what do we do with nations that have the average IQ of an 11 year old boy.


#10

You know whats funny?

If someone points out that at least East Asians have a higher IQ than Europeans that is not racist.

If it is pointed out that Africans, at least those below the Sahara have a significantly lower IQ that is racist.

What is also interesting is that the gap is always explained away in part that this tests are somehow favoring middle class Europeans, without going into why rice farmers in rural China seem to have no problems with that.

Also, the IQ of people in urban areas is higher than that in rural areas, what is that, urbanist?

edited


#11

Are you yourself a subsaharan African with a 70 iq? It certainly seems like it. Can you point out to me where and when, I (A) indicated my race and (B) said it was superior to all others based on race. If your comprehension capabilities are up to par, I indicated the IQ of a 'society' of people habitating a region. That is far removed from your allegatoins.

Are you from the Uk or something it would explain how brainwashed you are.
Colonizatoin and slavery are clever guilt devices but the facts don't support the allegations. Most estimates show life was better for Africans in colonial civilizations (less unemployment, higher social stability, introduction of education, and FAR less crime). Slavery is a non-issue, African tribes chose to sell their own slaves because they did not have industry capable of producing anything the traders wanted.

I don't see how you can indict 'slavery' on Europe when it was an indigenous African practice. Further, Europe has experienced serfdom, and slavery herself yet does not use that as an excuse for past or current failures.


#12


There you have it, the IQ map of the world, in all its controversial glory.


#13

I never argued with the IQ tests just that the tone of that guy, gave me the impression that we were talking about a sub race.


#14

I think you have just been mentally conditioned to refuse the cold hard facts of regional/racial reality and reacted that way until you got showed the numbers.
Far enough.


#15

[/quote]
Are you yourself a subsaharan African with a 70 iq? It certainly seems like it. Can you point out to me where and when, I (A) indicated my race and (B) said it was superior to all others based on race. If your comprehension capabilities are up to par, I indicated the IQ of a 'society' of people habitating a region. That is far removed from your allegatoins.

Are you from the Uk or something it would explain how brainwashed you are.
Colonizatoin and slavery are clever guilt devices but the facts don't support the allegations. Most estimates show life was better for Africans in colonial civilizations (less unemployment, higher social stability, introduction of education, and FAR less crime). Slavery is a non-issue, African tribes chose to sell their own slaves because they did not have industry capable of producing anything the traders wanted.

I don't see how you can indict 'slavery' on Europe when it was an indigenous African practice. Further, Europe has experienced serfdom, and slavery herself yet does not use that as an excuse for past or current failures.[/quote]

Way to go, demean my reply by insulting me.

Brainwashed? what? i made two replies and you deduced im brainwashed?

You still didn't make a remark about why there quality of life should'nt be improved? Do you think they should stay impoverished?


#16

When you have a lack of Education in a region, it will drive the IQ level down. Kinda hard to focus on education when your childeren are being forced into being child soliders, and then hooked on Coke to keep them as such. This forces vast amounts of the population to spend time on focusing on aqquiring money and the means of escape, only to encounter similar forces when moved to a neighboring African country. The tryanny and atrocities that occur in Africa are Largely responsible for why most of the continent remains vastly undereducated.(This doesn't even take into account the different tribes of Africa who still live similar to hundreds of years ago and are stubborn in accepting "modern ways.") One of the most educated African Natives I met (And one of the smartest people I knew period.) Was my World CIV teacher. He spoke seven different languages fluently and was beaming with information. IT seems the African natives that move from the continent to another location in the world achieve the most success IQ and education-wise. Which inherently disproves the notion that African people are just plain stupid and there is nothing you can do to help them. Given enough resources, African people can be just as educated and smart, if not smarter than anybody in the world. Lack of infrastructure, rural, dangerous geographical areas, and selfish dictatorship government coruption are just more reasons why less violent nations in Africa are still just as statistically IQ deficient.

I studied this in Depth in my Politics of Africa class in college, which was the hardest class I ever took in my life. The hardest A I earned too. So instead of speaking out of my ass, I actually have education and research to back up my previous statement. Now as to why Africa remains in turmoil, and why it cannot pick itself up after years of slave trade and colonization remains up for debate.

BTW Rohnyn has had previous threads/statements with racist undertones.


#17

So, what to do?

Let us say we are really, really, lucky and the IQ gap is due to malnutrition and diseases.

Are we going to take over and try to keep them as healthy and nourished as possible so that at least their kids get to develop their full potential?

All the while fighting off people who would be considered borderline retards in Europe with the added complication that they have AK 47s?

That would make a form of colonialism necessary and it would only be successful if the difference is not caused by genetics.

What if it is?


#18

So, is the IQ due to culture or is this the culture that people with such an IQ build?

The truth is, you dont know.

Also, of course people who looked around and felt like getting the fuck out will be smarter than those that stayed.

That is neither here nor there.

A relatively low average IQ does not make a genius impossible, just less likely.


#19

We do know the truth. The IQ issue is due to the people being a product of their enviroment which is a mix of evolved and inherent culture issues. Furthermore, it has been proven that lack of a statistically high IQ does not necessarily mean a culture that is doomed for failure or violence. All this has been evidenced by previous cultures dating back to early recordings of history. The truth is that you will get a mix of both, more violent and less violent sects all with a lack of education. Some of the most peaceful sects/tribes/civilizations on the earth Weren't/aren't necessarily the highest in IQ statistically.

The example of the African natives who left the country being statistically smarter IQ wise was brought up to prove that given enough means, Africans can be one of the smartest nations. So it is encumberingly evident that all Africa needs is a better means, a better consistent, widespread means of education to be IQ successful.

The issue of Africa and education/violence is complicated enough, lets not waste time complicating the issues that are more or less black and white.


#20

We know!?!

Pray tell, as far as I know pretty much everything relating to intelligence is discussed and far from settled-

Also, I once saw a documentation of a woman with Downs syndrome.

The thing is, she was a genius, at least for people with Downs, she was basically a functioning normal adult with average intelligence, she just had the look of someone with one chromosome too many.

That however would not lead me to conclude that those people on average have the same potential with a normal genome and yes, for genetic reasons.

Be that as it may, the fact of the matter is that those people in Africa have a low IQ now, no matter what their potential may or may not be.

Maybe it is just a vicious circle, but a vicious circle involving a few hundred million people is not going away just because we mean well.