I don’t utilize a Renegade type of training program. However, since many on the Forum do, I have been trying to understand the basic concepts. Question: Is Renegade training meant to be followed AFTER you have developed a solid strength and/or muscular base OR is meant to BUILD such a base OR both? Also, is Renegade training meant for a beginner? THANKS!
Mufasa, you’re missing out! You should give Renegade Training a try. I believe that Renegade training will build a solid base, but not in the way you may think. Instead of making you look the part, Renegade training will make you be the part. There is a difference. Coach Davies isn’t necessarily interested in having a high-level of strength per weight room numbers. He wants his athletes to be able to perform the best they can regardless of the amount of weight they may push. He has certain testing procedures that he goes through as well to test for agility, flexibility, speed and strength. Also, remember that Coach Davies’ programs are for FUNCTIONAL strength. Meaning, it helps with everyday functions. His main focus is on back and hamstrings in order to build a solid base that is injury free.
Many of the Coache's athletes have gained some serious muscular weight under his tuteledge. So it's not like you have to start out being big and strong prior to getting on his program. I believe beginners could use his program, but they may need to lower the volume or make other adjustments, as many beginners won't know how to perform Olympic movements.
Now that a lot of guys on the forum have tried the Renegade training I would expect right about now you will be experiencing a variety of overuse injuries. What confuses me is this quest for “functional strength” . Pushing a wheelbarrow loaded with weights around a track for an hour. Pulling tires and sleds, for what ? What is this functional strength for ? I could see it if I had to stop a 250 pound fullback but why would the average testosterone guy need this ? So you can hike better, rollerblade faster, please !!! I have temendous respect for Coach, but you guys are going to end up overtrained, injured and with less muscle. Time will tell…Leave this stuff to the college/pro athlete.
I disagree with NIAP. Functional strength is the basis. What good are huge muscles if there is no strenght to back them up. People would get more tremendous results if they concentrated on having a balance between building mass and building strength.
Functional Exercise is the latest fitness trend these days. Coach Davies is not the guru that people around here make him out to be. He has ideas that are novel to the majority of bodybuilders who read this site, that’s all.
There are plenty of things to do to increase GPP. You don’t have to go buy a kettleball or anything. Free weights have worked for years.
Nate Dogg, you crack me up. I remember when you were all over Poliquin's routines. Then you were all about Convergent Phase Training from Charles Staley. Then the latest and greatest was Westside Barbell routines. And now, you're on every post regarding Renegade Training. Eventuallly, you'll be on to some other latest and greatest routine. No flame intended, I like reading some of your posts. Just an observation. 1 day you'll have to write a book on which routines worked for you. Go gators!
I think functional strength is extremely important for a variety of sports and interests. Does it help you play flag football with your friends better? Sure 'nuff. What about in-line skating? Better believe it. How about overall conditioning? There isn’t a better way. Remember, functional strength is so you can perform everyday functions better. So this means it helps for those days when you help your friends move into their new place or when you’re carrying in your groceries. Not to mention a million other activities. Does it make you look better too? Hell yeah! There’s nothing like training that helps you stay lean and mean and add mass and allow you to eat, eat eat!
Overuse injuries? Good point. And yes, it can happen. Happened to me. I did four straight weeks of Renegade training and my joints were killing me. Once I began substituting certain exercises for many of the Olympic lifts, I had no more problems. I've been tearing it up Renegade style once again, and I love it. There's nothing like tossing around the kettlebell, jumping rope or hitting the weights at a fast pace! Like Fitbabe said, "Functional strength is the basis. What good are huge muscles if there is no strength to back them up. People would get more tremendous results if they concentrated on having a balance between building mass and building strength."
JD, good observation. Like many others, I change my training every 4-12 weeks. Yes, I’ve followed Ian King’s programs for a while. Then I switched to something more Poliquin like from May - June while focusing on maximal strength (5x5, 6x2,4). I was about to begin doing Staley’s CPT program when I began talking with Coach Davies. I began the Renegade training before I had a chance to do CPT. Although, I have put a friend on CPT, and he is making good progress. I did Westside for only three weeks. I did that as a break between Renegade training because I felt extremely overtrained and my joints were sore. But after playing around Westside style for a few weeks, I realized it just wasn’t what I was looking for. So I’ve gone back to Renegade training. And that is what I enjoy. So that’s why I’m sticking with it.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with trying something new. Just like John Berardi, if I do something and don’t feel like it’s working, or if I don’t enjoy it, I’m going to make changes. So that’s what I’ve done. And yes, I could write a small book on the things that have worked best for me. It’s all about finding what works best for you. And there are a few things I’ve done that work well. Renegade training is definitely what I’m most interested in because it combines functional strength and conditioning (GPP) so I can get stronger, bigger and leaner!
In response to id’s post: yeah, functional strength is in vogue these days but to say it’s just another fad is, perhaps, missing the point.
Most weight lifting protocols are all striving for the same thing: bigger muscles and heavier poundage. Functional strength is less aesthetically focused and attempts to increase strength and fitness in a way that maximizes carry-over into a given sport. Different goals.
True, plenty of people do well with standard lifting protocols while others–especially those participating in sports which demand speed, agility, strength, muscular endurance, and cardio-vascular fitness–require different stimulus to maximize their athletic fitness. After a few months of functional strength training, I definitely notice an improvement in my stamina and performance when grappling.
It’s not for everyone but it has its place and, IMHO, is a great way to augment your skill training. Just ask a wrestler, boxer or football player.
If you’ve been around for long enough, you’ll see some common threads with many different training programs. I personally think a person can raise work capacity with a program such as renegade training. I don’t see any reason a begginer could’t attempt it. remember when we all did a thing called play? We road bike then got in a pickup game of hoops, hiked whatever.
Fitness and training should be about health and fun. Maybe a challenge, etc. I think Coach Davies has done us a great service by showing us a way to be strong and tough. For the people that don’t believe in functional strength, talk to anj oldtimer. They’ll tell you plenty of stories about buffed work out types that can’t move some real world weight. For an example, the strongest forearms I’ve ever treated have belonged to mechanics. You don’t want to challenge these boys to a grip contest!
Just wanted to chime in real quick and give the Dogg–and all Renegades–some support…I haven’t had the opportunity or made it a priority to incorporate Coach Davies style of training into my training…yet, but I do think that it’s a hella cool way to do it up, with a plethora of benefits. Beyond functional strength, it would seem to provide a fresh and slightly different approach that would possibly spark new gains and interest.
Remember this is a lifestyle. There’s no one way to go about doing things, and not everyone’s goals are the same. For me, I consider myself a bodybuilder, so this style of training may not be the perfect fit or ideal–but I wouldn’t know that unless I tried. Nate Diggity Dogg, however, has made it quite clear that he is not and does not want to be considered a bodybuilder per se. My man Nate made the most important point that I was considering before I could post…and that’s the fact that this is a lifestyle and one must find ways to make it enjoyable and keep it fresh. Hell, maybe tomorrow one of our esteemed T-mag staffers will bust out a kick-butt training program and you’ll decide to give a shot. If you’re not enjoying what you’re doing, not performing with desire, passion and intensity, then maybe you’re not incorporating the optimal training system…or maybe this is not for you or you’re not for it.
Go get ‘em, Dogg! Keep workin’ hella hard, kid. Glad to see you’re not letting anybody hold you down. BTW, can I pre-order that book you’re planning on authoring! Hehehe.
Go for it. Not only is Renegade Training style a great way to enhance fitness and threshold capacity, it’s a nice alternative to traditional body building routines. As for injuries … I think that Renegade Training is the perfect injury-prevention routine. Think about it: life is ballistic. Body building routines don’t prepare you for sport, having to run down the street to chase after something, etc. Yes, functional preparation to me is a side effect, but I like to think of it more as sports training. And if your life revolves around athletics/activity, well then, it is training for life (without trying sound like some other magazine promo guy and his 12-week programs).