I’m currently on a ketogenic diet (which I’m logging here)
I was wondering if anyone remembers the fomula for MD6. As I undestand it, it’s yohimbe, ephedra and caffeine, and some other stuff, and I can get the components here in SA as we are a little less bigoted about things like that. Unfortunately GHB is illegal here, tho, (it’s scheduled the same as heroine). Anyway, I made up my owwn formulation this morning, and it is a little strong at the moment
Yo DeVito. Thanks for the suggestion. as far as the 25mg Ephedrine is concerned, that’s what I did this morning and I almost died. Ok… just kidding, but the accellerated heart-rate and jitters were noticeably high, and just bordering on discomfort. I wish I could get the L-Tyrosine… but unfortunately this “mixture” is actually a stack of a couple of popular thermogenics available in South Africa, Combined with Yohimbine and Asprin.
I’m interested in knowing why you suggested those changes, though?
well the 20-25mg epedrine is what was in the old md6(20mg) and in the old fashioned ECA stacks(25mg Eph, 200-250 Caff)…thats the most potent…as far as L-tyrosine, its just an amino acid so you can probably get it and a local healthfood store or just add biotests power drive to your concotion…R-alpha lipoic acid is far superior than regular ala for its antioxident and glucose uptake properties…
and studies shown that taking asprin with the EC stack shows no benifit except maybe giving you and ulcer down the line…
I think it’s the yohimbe that makes you almost die. I can’t remember the amount of yohimbe in the original MD6, but it was small. When I tried to put together my own stack like you’re doing, I found that the separate yohimbe caps I bought had WAY more than the MD6 formula.
I still have some of the original MD6. Don’t know if it would be illegal to sell it to you, though?
Thanks for all the advice, guys. It’s been a big help.
What I do now is take the Yohimbe first thing (still 9mg Yohimbine in a capsule from GNC) and then slowly titrate in the ephedrine until I feel a buzz. So, it’s essentially a mix-and match thing.
As for DeVito’s suggestion, you were right on about the asprin. I did check up on it and there really seems to be no major benefit… unless you read one of the older articles which wax lyrical about it.
And the tyrosine… well as I understand it, tyro affects the brain dircely, causing a more wakeful,alert and focused state (the upposite of tryptophan) Anyway, this is really good for dragging your ass through german body comp or sprint intervals while in a ketogenic state.
Tracer, do a little more research on the aspirin. It serves its purpose in the stack. It inhibits peripheral (around the fat cells, in this case) prostaglandin synthesis.
Willow bark does not provide the same benefits physiological benefits that aspirin does. And you don’t need any more than a baby aspirin, 81 mg.
Tampa-Terry - Thanks for the advice, but I’m a little confuced and I hope you can clear it up for me.
Prostaglandin is a rather broad term. Are you referring to particular prostaglandin, or does aspirin act to inhibit all prostaglandins? If so, it seems to me that it might be a really BAD idea to use in the middle of a Poliquin-type German Body Comp workout (or perhaps ever) because the increased growth during this period is partially made possible by the lactic acid induced formation of PGE 2 series prostaglandins, as well as synergistic increases in GH and androgens caused by the brief, intense exertion (this is of course, in addition to the usual mechanisms). It sounds to me that chumping a lot of aspirin might make one lose out on one of the more potent mechanisms of growth with this training programme.
Also, a minor consideration for me is the anti-coagulant efffects of aspirin do piss me off a little, considering I spar quite often and there’s nothing more irritating than a minor lip cut that won’t stop bleeding, thereby giving your opponent an undue feeling of accomplishment… but as you say, I’m probably overdosing on the suff. Nevertheles, I was quite happy to hear that I could throw it out.
BTW is the Salicin in one of the thermogenics actually aspirin? I think aspirin is actually Salicylic acid, isn’t it? So are the two the same?
Hey, there, Tracer. If you’re interested, I’m using a text by Daniel Mowrey to answer your question. He wrote a book called “Fat Management! The Thermogenic Factor.” It’s technical treatise of ECA stacks. The first portion of the book is written for and can actually be understood by the layman. The second portion of the book was written to give supplement manufacturers guidance on how to construct an effective and safe ECA stack.
There are 3 series of prostaglandins (hormone-like substances); PGE-1, PGE-2 and PGE-3. The series of prostaglandins above have a number of functions, but as it relates to thermogenesis (the creation of heat by BAT (Brown Adipose Tissue)), PGE-1 and PGE-2 are the players. By increasing the activity of PGE-1 and inhibiiting the actions of PGE-2, cAMP can be controlled.
Additionally where ephedrine alone can cause hypertension in some individuals (and a rise in BP in all individuals to some degree), research shows the ephedrine plus aspirin fails to create a hypertensive action.
Another reason for wanting to control PGE-2 is that it plays an important role in the negative feedback loops that control and modulate the action of NE (norepinephrine/noradrenalin) on the lipolytic (fat breakdown) events of BAT cells. PGE-2, once again is suppressed by anti-inflammatory substances like aspirin.
I can get into the details if you’re interested, but aspirin does not exert a direct, activating effect on any of the events involved in thermogenesis. Rather it helps eliminate one of the events that inhibit thermogenesis.
Questions, comments? Would you like me to go into more detail? (grin)
Yes, please do. I still don’t understand why one would want to directly inhibit a major anabolic influence.
And, although I’m probably wrong here, I don’t think my BAT levels are all that high, relatively speaking. (I am a human and I’m older than 18 months ;-).
I don’t really know if the aim of a thermogenic stack in general is to induce NST of some sort, or simply to prevent the metabolic drop-off when dieting while simultaneously exerting direct fat-loss effects. Anyway, I appreciate your help.
How do you feel that suppressing PGE2 is suppressing a major anabolic influence?
PGE2 is responsible for inflammation via the production of AA (arachadonic acid), among other things. When you ingest higher levels of Omega 3s (relative to Omega 6s), you’re doing just that; i.e., you’re reducing levels of PGE2, AA and inflammation. Manipulating (suppressing, in this case) PGE2 levels also have thermogenic benefits as well.
I’m sorry, but I’m not familiar with the acronym NST.
Since BAT is responsible for maintaining core temp and actually produces heat and can be “persuaded” into burning more calories, there’s every reason to want to manipulate and optimize BAT function.
If you get the book, all questions will be answered. (grin)
The bottom line is that low-dose aspirin serves a useful purpose in an ECA stack. However, the choice is yours.